WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:15.000 This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 3,844 for Thursday the 27th of April 2023. 00:15.000 --> 00:22.240 Today's show is entitled, 2022-2023 New Years Show Episode 6. 00:22.240 --> 00:25.640 It is part of the series HP or New Year's show. 00:25.640 --> 00:32.040 It is hosted by HP or volunteers and is about 121 minutes long. 00:32.040 --> 00:34.840 It carries an explicit flag. 00:34.840 --> 00:40.640 The summary is 2022-2023 New Years Show where people come together and chat. 00:40.640 --> 00:43.640 Can I do something personal real quick? 00:43.640 --> 00:45.640 Depends on how personal. 00:45.640 --> 00:49.800 Someone tried saying hello to me as if I'm somebody and I talked to them because I was too afraid 00:49.800 --> 00:50.800 to lose my own train of thoughts. 00:50.800 --> 00:55.800 So I just would like to say hello to you. 00:55.800 --> 00:56.800 Infamous, maybe. 00:56.800 --> 01:00.800 I think the only thing I'm famous for is being infamous and I'll screw up. 01:00.800 --> 01:01.800 But thank you. 01:01.800 --> 01:02.800 Hello? 01:02.800 --> 01:04.800 Is that by your hand? 01:04.800 --> 01:05.800 Yeah. 01:05.800 --> 01:06.800 Don't worry about me. 01:06.800 --> 01:08.800 It's probably a year we won this. 01:08.800 --> 01:12.800 I remember you for your sub-sub-sub-sub as you're screening. 01:12.800 --> 01:14.800 You're coming in. 01:14.800 --> 01:15.800 You're coming in. 01:15.800 --> 01:16.800 You're coming in. 01:16.800 --> 01:17.800 You're coming in. 01:17.800 --> 01:18.800 Yeah. 01:18.800 --> 01:20.800 That's what a bad topic. 01:20.800 --> 01:23.800 What I was going to say is which country has the best beer? 01:23.800 --> 01:24.800 Belgium, Belgium. 01:24.800 --> 01:26.800 America right now. 01:26.800 --> 01:28.800 With Americans even can make some Belgians. 01:28.800 --> 01:29.800 It's unbelievable. 01:29.800 --> 01:30.800 You can make some Belgians. 01:30.800 --> 01:32.800 Because if I was done this time, yeah. 01:32.800 --> 01:37.800 Well, the US is doing with beer. 01:37.800 --> 01:40.800 What Japan did with everything else. 01:40.800 --> 01:42.800 They see how people do it. 01:42.800 --> 01:47.800 They try it out that way without like pre-judging it and saying it's wrong. 01:47.800 --> 01:49.800 And they put their twist on it. 01:49.800 --> 01:51.800 And they combine what they've learned. 01:51.800 --> 01:55.800 And you know, Japan did it with cars and electronics. 01:55.800 --> 01:57.800 And wag you beef. 01:57.800 --> 01:58.800 Whatever. 01:58.800 --> 02:01.800 Watch Tom Sellik, Mr. Baseball. 02:01.800 --> 02:03.800 For that speech. 02:03.800 --> 02:07.800 But America has done the same with beer and has done really well with it. 02:07.800 --> 02:08.800 I did up to Lafayne. 02:08.800 --> 02:10.800 It's a few years ago now. 02:10.800 --> 02:15.800 And there was a contingent from the USA, obviously, because it's a huge conference. 02:15.800 --> 02:17.800 And a few of them, it was their first time here. 02:17.800 --> 02:19.800 No, it had first time in Belgium. 02:19.800 --> 02:21.800 And they were like, let's go have some drinks. 02:21.800 --> 02:25.800 So we did. And of course, what they didn't realise was two problems. 02:25.800 --> 02:28.800 One, the lowest percentage of alcohol you're going to get in a Belgian beer. 02:28.800 --> 02:30.800 Usually in a pub is about 9%. 02:30.800 --> 02:32.800 Which is a lot higher than one. 02:32.800 --> 02:33.800 So five years. 02:33.800 --> 02:37.800 Four to six percent, you know, that we're used to getting even in the UK. 02:37.800 --> 02:39.800 We could usually top out about five for an average. 02:39.800 --> 02:41.800 But it also goes well. 02:41.800 --> 02:45.800 The maritime I had on belts. 02:45.800 --> 02:46.800 Americans don't have the time. 02:46.800 --> 02:48.800 So we have 16 ounces of their smaller. 02:48.800 --> 02:49.800 So you're right. 02:49.800 --> 02:50.800 It's a bigger beer. 02:50.800 --> 02:53.800 And it's got to taste as much alcohol in it. 02:53.800 --> 02:57.800 So we had a very merry bunch of Americans. 02:57.800 --> 03:01.800 The fact that, you know, Poké's right. 03:01.800 --> 03:04.800 This is one of the greatest places to get different types. 03:04.800 --> 03:08.800 And really well made and really flavorful beers. 03:08.800 --> 03:10.800 I mean, it's basically anything you want. 03:10.800 --> 03:14.800 Most of your average Americans are still drinking piss water. 03:14.800 --> 03:15.800 Good. 03:15.800 --> 03:16.800 Let them. 03:16.800 --> 03:20.800 It keeps the price down and the really, really good stuff for the rest of us. 03:20.800 --> 03:21.800 Right. 03:21.800 --> 03:23.800 I mean, I just got all this great stuff here. 03:23.800 --> 03:28.800 And if you walk into a bar in middle America and you're, you're a white guy, 03:28.800 --> 03:30.800 and you order anything other than a Budweiser, 03:30.800 --> 03:32.800 you're probably going to start a fight. 03:32.800 --> 03:33.800 You're exposed to, I tell you what. 03:33.800 --> 03:35.800 It's not even Budweiser anymore. 03:35.800 --> 03:37.800 By the way, it's pronounced piss vasa. 03:37.800 --> 03:41.800 The guys that I drink with drink. 03:41.800 --> 03:44.800 One guy drinks raspberry, 03:44.800 --> 03:45.800 Natty lights. 03:45.800 --> 03:46.800 Another guy drinks. 03:46.800 --> 03:47.800 Oh, Natty lights. 03:47.800 --> 03:48.800 He's another guy. 03:48.800 --> 03:51.800 Like you wouldn't believe with this flavor. 03:51.800 --> 03:52.800 The what? 03:52.800 --> 03:55.800 And the more flavor than your average Budweiser. 03:55.800 --> 03:56.800 I don't know, mate. 03:56.800 --> 03:56.800 Okay. 03:56.800 --> 03:57.800 No, light is disgusting. 03:57.800 --> 03:59.800 No matter what flavor you freaking put in it. 03:59.800 --> 04:00.800 But that's the point. 04:00.800 --> 04:02.800 At least it's not a generic Bud Light. 04:02.800 --> 04:05.800 Yeah, but Bud Light is better than the, 04:05.800 --> 04:08.800 the gagging that I did on that. 04:08.800 --> 04:09.800 But Natty lights. 04:09.800 --> 04:10.800 Yes, okay. 04:10.800 --> 04:12.800 I want the raspberry Natty light. 04:12.800 --> 04:13.800 I never had a regular Natty light. 04:13.800 --> 04:15.800 The raspberry Natty light made me gagged. 04:15.800 --> 04:17.800 I almost chucked it. 04:17.800 --> 04:18.800 But they're all nasty. 04:18.800 --> 04:19.800 I think it's interesting. 04:19.800 --> 04:20.800 You were saying, 04:20.800 --> 04:21.800 Okay. 04:21.800 --> 04:25.800 Poké, you were saying about the Japanese taking things and excelling. 04:25.800 --> 04:28.800 I can attest that that was not the case with beer. 04:28.800 --> 04:31.800 And it's not because their beer is bad. 04:31.800 --> 04:32.800 Their beer is absolutely great. 04:32.800 --> 04:34.800 They do some amazing craft beers. 04:34.800 --> 04:39.800 They do insist on putting about 20 centimeters of head on a glass, 04:39.800 --> 04:41.800 which is just fundamentally wrong. 04:41.800 --> 04:44.800 I don't want that to be more head than beer. 04:44.800 --> 04:46.800 Not a few hours for Tim Cook. 04:46.800 --> 04:49.800 So, I don't tend to ask Tim Cook. 04:49.800 --> 04:50.800 Mr. Apple. 04:50.800 --> 04:51.800 Tim Apple. 04:51.800 --> 04:52.800 No, the other Tim Cook. 04:52.800 --> 04:54.800 You were just wouldn't ask Tim. 04:54.800 --> 04:57.800 Because he was a patriot, dammit. 04:57.800 --> 05:01.800 No, Tim Cook is the brewer of Sam Adams. 05:01.800 --> 05:05.800 And his first commercials back in the It could have been late 80s, 05:05.800 --> 05:06.800 early 90s, mid 90s. 05:06.800 --> 05:07.800 I don't know. 05:07.800 --> 05:08.800 I was too young to drink at the time. 05:08.800 --> 05:09.800 But I heard them all. 05:09.800 --> 05:10.800 He's coming to drink. 05:10.800 --> 05:12.800 What's in the white side? 05:12.800 --> 05:14.800 I was listening after that. 05:14.800 --> 05:15.800 So, I come in. 05:15.800 --> 05:17.800 Different than drinking. 05:17.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:18.800 Yeah. 05:18.800 --> 05:19.800 Yeah. 05:19.800 --> 05:20.800 Yeah. 05:21.800 --> 05:22.800 Yeah. 05:22.800 --> 05:23.800 Yeah. 05:23.800 --> 05:24.800 Yeah. 05:24.800 --> 05:24.800 Yeah, it's nice. 05:24.800 --> 05:25.800 Okay. 05:25.800 --> 05:30.800 So you've told me, yeah. 05:30.800 --> 05:31.800 Yeah. 05:31.800 --> 05:32.800 Well, hey. 05:32.800 --> 05:32.800 Yeah. 05:32.800 --> 05:33.800 Fine. 05:33.800 --> 05:33.800 Yeah. 05:33.800 --> 05:34.800 So. 05:35.800 --> 05:35.800 Yeah. 05:35.800 --> 05:36.800 Yeah. 05:36.800 --> 05:38.800 Anyway. 05:38.800 --> 05:39.800 And you've never heard of this before. 05:39.800 --> 05:41.800 Yeah. 05:43.800 --> 05:44.800 Yeah. 05:44.800 --> 05:44.800 Yeah. 05:44.800 --> 05:45.800 Yeah. 05:45.800 --> 05:45.800 Any other people. 05:45.800 --> 05:46.800 Yeah. 05:46.800 --> 05:47.800 Yeah. 05:47.800 --> 05:18.800 You've? 05:18.800 --> 05:20.800 That's the same for you. 05:20.800 --> 05:23.800 It's like you're like, you're doing the whole new. 05:23.800 --> 05:25.800 Somebody said that the point smaller in the America, 05:25.800 --> 05:26.800 but I was like, well, OK. 05:26.800 --> 05:30.800 The American is fine. 05:30.800 --> 05:34.800 It's like, you didn't… 05:34.800 --> 05:39.800 In America, you're not supposed to drink until 21. 05:39.800 --> 05:42.800 You can drive a car 15, yeah. 05:42.800 --> 05:43.800 I'm sorry. 05:43.800 --> 05:45.800 With car king killed people. 05:45.800 --> 05:55.040 Yeah, the driver or the people in the road, the drinking in the US is 21, but I swear the drinking 05:55.040 --> 05:57.040 agent I was 14. 05:57.040 --> 06:02.040 Yeah, the drinking agent the UK is 18, but we all started drinking around about 14. 06:02.040 --> 06:03.040 Exactly. 06:03.040 --> 06:04.040 Oh yeah. 06:04.040 --> 06:05.040 Thank you. 06:05.040 --> 06:06.040 Thank you. 06:06.040 --> 06:07.040 Come on, Sebastian. 06:07.040 --> 06:08.040 I'm sorry for Bristol. 06:08.040 --> 06:10.320 We know what it's like in the West Country. 06:10.320 --> 06:14.240 You're raised on sight, or it's in your very least. 06:14.240 --> 06:17.480 No, you're also over from Submerset, and you've got nothing to do, but like where's the 06:17.480 --> 06:20.480 combine harvest is going to go through the field, drink your cider. 06:20.480 --> 06:21.480 Time out. 06:21.480 --> 06:22.480 Yeah. 06:22.480 --> 06:23.480 Oh my no, no. 06:23.480 --> 06:24.480 Exactly. 06:24.480 --> 06:25.480 Thank you very much. 06:25.480 --> 06:26.480 It's all farm country out there. 06:26.480 --> 06:29.000 And the whole thing is, is I swear the state's port is drinking and driving. 06:29.000 --> 06:30.000 Lots of states. 06:30.000 --> 06:31.000 Yeah. 06:31.000 --> 06:32.000 Yeah. 06:32.000 --> 06:33.000 I'm out. 06:33.000 --> 06:34.000 Hey, Seb, you are causing a lot of feedback. 06:34.000 --> 06:36.640 Anytime you're keyed up in anyone else's keyed up, there's huge amounts 06:36.640 --> 06:37.640 of echo. 06:37.640 --> 06:38.640 The might be. 06:38.640 --> 06:39.640 I don't know. 06:39.640 --> 06:40.640 It depends. 06:40.640 --> 06:41.640 That's up. 06:41.640 --> 06:44.200 It'll be one of two things either, you're not using a headset. 06:44.200 --> 06:47.040 Or you're like, well, a stiff stick mic. 06:47.040 --> 06:49.040 No, it not might be it definitely is. 06:49.040 --> 06:53.120 Anytime you're keyed up in anybody else's keys up, it echoes back at everybody. 06:53.120 --> 06:54.120 It's definitely a thing. 06:54.120 --> 06:55.120 It's definitely happening. 06:55.120 --> 06:59.120 I can't tell you what's causing it, but it's it's very clear. 06:59.120 --> 07:03.680 It's like software clear, not headphones next to your mic, so it's maybe something 07:03.680 --> 07:04.680 and software. 07:04.680 --> 07:05.680 But it could be. 07:05.680 --> 07:06.680 If you're not wearing headphones, I'll do it too. 07:06.680 --> 07:07.680 But you've got to speak. 07:07.680 --> 07:08.680 There's a bit of a bit of a mic. 07:08.680 --> 07:09.680 That's it. 07:09.680 --> 07:10.680 I find it. 07:10.680 --> 07:11.680 Tack your two quiet. 07:11.680 --> 07:12.680 No one could hear anything. 07:12.680 --> 07:14.880 And could you repeat that with a little more gain? 07:14.880 --> 07:16.520 I prefer that way to be honest. 07:16.520 --> 07:18.120 Yeah, I want George speaking. 07:18.120 --> 07:19.920 I don't want to get what George was saying. 07:19.920 --> 07:20.920 It's usually not. 07:20.920 --> 07:21.920 It went to heck. 07:21.920 --> 07:24.360 Oh, that was a good burn. 07:24.360 --> 07:28.840 George I was interested, even if the guys who actually know you want George, the British 07:28.840 --> 07:34.160 contingent were having a poke at, but you know, you couldn't shout over us. 07:34.160 --> 07:35.160 Why? 07:35.160 --> 07:36.160 Why? 07:36.160 --> 07:37.160 You've loved me. 07:37.160 --> 07:41.480 That's what's because he's just because it's just because his name is the love bug. 07:41.480 --> 07:42.480 He doesn't mean he loves you. 07:42.480 --> 07:48.480 Well, I know he can get his voice, he doesn't know the love bug. 07:48.480 --> 07:49.480 Yeah, he's kidding. 07:49.480 --> 07:50.480 Oh, no. 07:50.480 --> 07:52.480 He says he's got work in. 07:52.480 --> 07:53.480 Yeah, I love that. 07:53.480 --> 07:56.240 He's a really, really old crappy version of mumbleed for it to work. 07:56.240 --> 08:00.840 I tried to snap version and the flat pack version of the most recent ones. 08:00.840 --> 08:02.480 I didn't know I just then would work. 08:02.480 --> 08:04.480 I assumed to have a good issues. 08:04.480 --> 08:05.480 No, no, it's difficult to find. 08:05.480 --> 08:06.480 I know. 08:06.480 --> 08:07.480 He's the same certificate. 08:07.480 --> 08:08.480 I used to save certificate. 08:08.480 --> 08:14.480 But it was more the fact that they pushed to talk, um, global shortcuts. 08:14.480 --> 08:19.480 Whenever I click the add button to say, this is the shortcut I want to use for push to talk. 08:19.480 --> 08:21.480 It didn't do anything. 08:21.480 --> 08:28.480 Oh, yeah, I had that problem as well on the version from the arch repository. 08:28.480 --> 08:30.480 I had to get the get versions from arch. 08:30.480 --> 08:31.480 So I think they've broken some. 08:31.480 --> 08:32.480 Yeah, it looks like him. 08:32.480 --> 08:33.480 Am I coming? 08:33.480 --> 08:34.480 That's fine. 08:34.480 --> 08:35.480 It was the same process. 08:35.480 --> 08:37.480 This is probably user error. 08:37.480 --> 08:38.480 It sounds beautiful. 08:38.480 --> 08:40.480 Oh, bless you. 08:40.480 --> 08:41.480 No, I mean, he's gone on. 08:41.480 --> 08:43.480 He was a fantastic setup. 08:43.480 --> 08:46.480 Yeah, you sound really like your level is already set up. 08:46.480 --> 08:48.480 Not blowing anybody out. 08:48.480 --> 08:52.480 I could hear almost made out what you said, even when people were walking on you. 08:52.480 --> 08:55.480 And when you're the only one talking, you have to gorgeous. 08:55.480 --> 08:56.480 I geez. 08:56.480 --> 08:57.480 What are you using? 08:57.480 --> 08:58.480 That is a. 08:58.480 --> 08:59.480 You shut up guys. 08:59.480 --> 09:00.480 What might you go? 09:00.480 --> 09:05.480 I'm using a Samsung Q2U, which is, I think is the equivalent of the audio 09:05.480 --> 09:07.480 technical 2100. 09:07.480 --> 09:08.480 It is. 09:08.480 --> 09:10.480 It's a really, really nice microphone. 09:10.480 --> 09:11.480 Incredibly cheap. 09:11.480 --> 09:12.480 Probably works out. 09:12.480 --> 09:15.480 Well, a current exchange rates about 67 cents. 09:15.480 --> 09:18.480 But I think back in the day when we actually had a working currency. 09:18.480 --> 09:21.480 It was would have been about 60, maybe $70. 09:21.480 --> 09:26.480 I think this is one of the ones that Leo that was formally on midcast was recommending. 09:26.480 --> 09:28.480 And it's actually on sale right now. 09:28.480 --> 09:31.480 Sam was on his menu to one. 09:31.480 --> 09:32.480 Q2U. 09:32.480 --> 09:33.480 Thank you. 09:33.480 --> 09:34.480 Sam Sun. 09:34.480 --> 09:35.480 Yes. 09:35.480 --> 09:38.480 So XLR and USB. 09:38.480 --> 09:40.480 So I'm using it through XLR for a mixer. 09:40.480 --> 09:44.480 But the USB option for it works really well as well. 09:44.480 --> 09:46.480 Really does it sound just as good? 09:46.480 --> 09:49.480 Minus the mixer or just almost as good? 09:49.480 --> 09:50.480 Minus the mixer. 09:50.480 --> 09:52.480 Well, I've never used it through USB personally. 09:52.480 --> 09:55.480 But the wife does when she does her work from home. 09:55.480 --> 09:57.480 Usually, she will use the same microphones for our show. 09:57.480 --> 10:00.480 Both going through USB for the mixer for the podcast. 10:00.480 --> 10:03.480 But when she's doing her own work, she just takes the USB cable from the back 10:03.480 --> 10:05.480 of the microphone into a laptop. 10:05.480 --> 10:06.480 And it just works. 10:06.480 --> 10:07.480 And it sounds brilliant. 10:07.480 --> 10:09.480 Oh, this is for Americans. 10:09.480 --> 10:12.480 This is $99.99 at Walmart. 10:12.480 --> 10:14.480 You five fifty nine on Amazon. 10:14.480 --> 10:15.480 Yeah. 10:15.480 --> 10:17.480 Fifty five dollars and ninety nine cents on Amazon. 10:17.480 --> 10:19.480 I don't want to say that to you guys. 10:19.480 --> 10:22.480 But I've watched ITR 2100s about eight years ago. 10:22.480 --> 10:24.480 I bought three of them for about thirty dollars. 10:24.480 --> 10:27.480 So they have gone up in price like crazy. 10:27.480 --> 10:30.480 But is that just for the microphone or is that the podcasting set? 10:30.480 --> 10:31.480 Which is like your best standard. 10:31.480 --> 10:34.480 If that was the best standard. 10:34.480 --> 10:35.480 If that was the best standard. 10:35.480 --> 10:35.480 Right. 10:35.480 --> 10:36.480 What advice? 10:36.480 --> 10:37.480 Forget the headphones. 10:37.480 --> 10:39.480 The headphones are beyond. 10:39.480 --> 10:39.480 Okay. 10:39.480 --> 10:40.480 Buy your own. 10:40.480 --> 10:41.480 Yeah. 10:41.480 --> 10:41.480 Okay. 10:41.480 --> 10:44.480 So George, tack geospark. 10:44.480 --> 10:46.480 When you spoke up and said that, 10:46.480 --> 10:49.480 the thirty three bucks, you know, 10:49.480 --> 10:51.480 saving twenty bucks, twenty two bucks. 10:51.480 --> 10:52.480 I would brag about that. 10:52.480 --> 10:55.480 If I were in your seat too, but from my seat, 10:55.480 --> 10:58.480 I just heard what your sounds like compared to the love bugs. 10:58.480 --> 10:59.480 It's worth the extra twenty bucks. 10:59.480 --> 11:01.480 Actually, I'm not using that mic. 11:01.480 --> 11:02.480 Oh, nice safe. 11:02.480 --> 11:03.480 Oh, good save. 11:03.480 --> 11:04.480 Thank you. 11:04.480 --> 11:05.480 I really didn't. 11:05.480 --> 11:06.480 Oh, I didn't want to walk away. 11:06.480 --> 11:07.480 Feel like I was mean. 11:07.480 --> 11:08.480 Thank you. 11:08.480 --> 11:09.480 No, this is a joke. 11:09.480 --> 11:12.480 I'm going to the next clue van or some weird off name brand. 11:12.480 --> 11:13.480 Drop mic. 11:13.480 --> 11:13.480 So. 11:13.480 --> 11:15.480 I'm sure I'll go medical medication cold back. 11:15.480 --> 11:16.480 Yeah, I know. 11:16.480 --> 11:17.480 It's weird. 11:17.480 --> 11:18.480 It looks like it does look a medicating. 11:18.480 --> 11:19.480 It looks like it. 11:19.480 --> 11:20.480 It's a pretty mic, but it's. 11:20.480 --> 11:21.480 It's generic. 11:21.480 --> 11:25.480 Did the ex-living give you those weird dreams to love 11:25.480 --> 11:27.480 up every single night. 11:27.480 --> 11:30.480 Then I think I recognize you even from outside of. 11:30.480 --> 11:31.480 But. 11:31.480 --> 11:32.480 Okay. 11:32.480 --> 11:33.480 I think I remember you. 11:33.480 --> 11:35.480 Speaking of prices though, you know, 11:35.480 --> 11:37.480 that whole ninety nine dollars ninety nine cents, 11:37.480 --> 11:38.480 you know where that comes from? 11:38.480 --> 11:40.480 Why we do the ninety nine cents thing. 11:40.480 --> 11:41.480 It's a cycle of two things, isn't it? 11:41.480 --> 11:43.480 No two dollars is less than a hundred. 11:43.480 --> 11:44.480 Yeah, but it's got what's the key. 11:44.480 --> 11:45.480 It's buffer. 11:45.480 --> 11:46.480 If it knows the key. 11:46.480 --> 11:49.480 It's it's that's partially correct. 11:49.480 --> 11:51.480 So that's only one side of it. 11:51.480 --> 11:55.480 The actual reason is that when people make sales, 11:55.480 --> 11:58.480 and they would be they would skip putting it through the register, 11:58.480 --> 12:01.480 because it was just easier to not. 12:01.480 --> 12:03.480 But of course, if they have to give change, 12:03.480 --> 12:06.480 they have to open the register and record the sale. 12:06.480 --> 12:10.480 So to force them to do that at the end of the day of the registers are. 12:10.480 --> 12:13.480 Exactly, because they had to reach in to get the change. 12:13.480 --> 12:16.480 And that's why they put it to ninety nine cents, 12:16.480 --> 12:18.480 because that was the closest they could get to the dollar, 12:18.480 --> 12:21.480 while also forcing their employees to open the register. 12:21.480 --> 12:22.480 Interesting. 12:22.480 --> 12:25.480 See, I prefer having round number things to pay. 12:25.480 --> 12:26.480 You know, if you've got one more. 12:26.480 --> 12:28.480 Yeah, no, absolutely. 12:28.480 --> 12:31.480 I mean, some of our local supermarkets have started mail, 12:31.480 --> 12:33.480 selling things for, you know, 12:33.480 --> 12:34.480 1499. 12:34.480 --> 12:36.480 Well, you'd be surprised, actually. 12:36.480 --> 12:39.480 You might have placed it still only take cash. 12:39.480 --> 12:43.480 I live in Germany, and I live in Germany, 12:43.480 --> 12:45.480 and they just, they don't do card here. 12:45.480 --> 12:47.480 It's just cash. 12:47.480 --> 12:48.480 I good for you guys. 12:48.480 --> 12:50.480 I just started doing, 12:50.480 --> 12:52.480 um, carrying a little bit of cash again. 12:52.480 --> 12:54.480 And it isn't even all that much, 12:54.480 --> 12:57.480 and I almost never use it, but it's empowering. 12:57.480 --> 12:58.480 It really, 12:58.480 --> 13:00.480 Well, yeah, the emergency station, 13:00.480 --> 13:01.480 your pocket is always a good thing. 13:01.480 --> 13:04.480 But yeah, I haven't actively carried cash 13:04.480 --> 13:08.480 other than like having a 20 on me for a decade now. 13:08.480 --> 13:10.480 May you see, you want to get 20, 13:10.480 --> 13:12.480 where you have a difference it makes to you. 13:12.480 --> 13:14.480 Yeah, get a cash clip. 13:14.480 --> 13:15.480 Get a cash clip. 13:15.480 --> 13:17.480 I'm bring that out when you come to pay for something. 13:17.480 --> 13:19.480 And you feel like a king, 13:19.480 --> 13:22.480 even though that's only, you know, 200 euros in there. 13:22.480 --> 13:24.480 That's a good way to draw attention 13:24.480 --> 13:26.480 in a lot of the places that I've lived. 13:26.480 --> 13:27.480 You've been doing it. 13:27.480 --> 13:28.480 It's a good way to get it. 13:28.480 --> 13:29.480 Don't doubt in the parking line. 13:29.480 --> 13:31.480 I mean, yeah, but in, I mean, 13:31.480 --> 13:33.480 in Berlin, that's not really a, 13:33.480 --> 13:34.480 not really a concern. 13:34.480 --> 13:36.480 Well, it's been 20 years in El Paso. 13:36.480 --> 13:37.480 I'm very sorry. 13:37.480 --> 13:40.480 I'll bring cash with me for a first then, 13:40.480 --> 13:41.480 but, but say, 13:41.480 --> 13:42.480 and even at first, 13:42.480 --> 13:43.480 they're more, 13:43.480 --> 13:46.480 well, two of the stands may even take cards. 13:46.480 --> 13:49.480 There's a piece at the stand to the mentee, 13:49.480 --> 13:51.480 and maybe something else. 13:51.480 --> 13:52.480 You see, you say that, 13:52.480 --> 13:55.480 but when I was at a free note live, 13:55.480 --> 13:56.480 I went to try and buy, 13:56.480 --> 13:59.480 I told you about the e-max manual that I have. 13:59.480 --> 14:02.480 I tried to buy that from the free software foundation stall, 14:02.480 --> 14:05.480 and they were trying desperately to use free software 14:05.480 --> 14:06.480 to power the card readers, 14:06.480 --> 14:08.480 and it just didn't work. 14:08.480 --> 14:09.480 And I was just there like, 14:09.480 --> 14:11.480 I can go and get cash out there like, 14:11.480 --> 14:13.480 no, no, no, we'll get this working. 14:13.480 --> 14:15.480 It took an hour and a half. 14:15.480 --> 14:17.480 But obviously, that was in Bristol. 14:17.480 --> 14:19.480 So, yes, that makes sense. 14:19.480 --> 14:20.480 Perfect, sense. 14:20.480 --> 14:22.480 You know, you mentioned free software. 14:22.480 --> 14:24.480 You know what that reminds me of? 14:24.480 --> 14:26.480 Is that free software? 14:26.480 --> 14:29.480 No, it reminds me of free software. 14:29.480 --> 14:31.480 Yeah, free money. 14:31.480 --> 14:32.480 Okay, money. 14:32.480 --> 14:33.480 Software. 14:33.480 --> 14:34.480 Yeah. 14:34.480 --> 14:36.480 No, no, free is in freedom. 14:36.480 --> 14:38.480 I was going to make a recommendation. 14:38.480 --> 14:39.480 Sorry. 14:39.480 --> 14:40.480 Okay. 14:40.480 --> 14:41.480 Okay. 14:41.480 --> 14:42.480 I don't understand. 14:42.480 --> 14:45.480 I don't understand. 14:45.480 --> 14:47.480 Oh, this is the time in the place, 14:47.480 --> 14:49.480 but at least let me get my recommendation out first. 14:49.480 --> 14:53.480 And then we can make this the time in the place for free versus train. 14:53.480 --> 14:54.480 Conversation. 14:54.480 --> 14:55.480 Yeah, please. 14:55.480 --> 15:01.480 Anyway, just in case anyone who hears this doesn't listen to dev random, 15:01.480 --> 15:03.480 and I'm sure no one who listens is does. 15:03.480 --> 15:06.480 I found an awesome, awesome, awesome app in the F. 15:06.480 --> 15:12.480 Droid store for Android called flavor decks. 15:12.480 --> 15:18.480 And it's built so that you can catalog and take pictures and do star ratings. 15:18.480 --> 15:19.480 And it's all personal. 15:19.480 --> 15:22.480 If you don't have to share it with anybody or we're take theirs. 15:22.480 --> 15:24.480 I would like there for there to be a way to be. 15:24.480 --> 15:25.480 But I don't know if there is. 15:25.480 --> 15:26.480 Maybe there is. 15:26.480 --> 15:27.480 I don't know. 15:27.480 --> 15:33.480 Anyway, and it's it's pre built for whiskey and wine and beer and something else. 15:33.480 --> 15:36.480 But I've been able to make it work for pipe tobacco. 15:36.480 --> 15:38.480 I just added it as a category. 15:38.480 --> 15:40.480 And it's really, really nice. 15:40.480 --> 15:45.480 I did it on you random as our, our F. Droid spotlight, which we don't always do, 15:45.480 --> 15:46.480 which is everyone's in a while. 15:46.480 --> 15:48.480 We'll find something in spotlight it. 15:48.480 --> 15:49.480 And this made the cut. 15:49.480 --> 15:51.480 This is an awesome, awesome little app. 15:51.480 --> 15:53.480 What's the name of that again? 15:53.480 --> 15:55.480 Flavor decks. 15:55.480 --> 15:58.480 We have a story for those. 15:58.480 --> 16:06.480 Oh, from the west country of England. And again, and perhaps, although it may have been also. 16:06.480 --> 16:09.480 It may have originally come from Scotland. 16:09.480 --> 16:10.480 Yes. 16:10.480 --> 16:12.480 Not now that I think of it. 16:12.480 --> 16:16.480 It's a counter to your money clip, our German. 16:16.480 --> 16:20.480 The counter to the argument for the money clip or the argument against the money clip. 16:20.480 --> 16:25.480 It was the counter to the argument for the money clip. 16:25.480 --> 16:29.480 And American went to Scotland with a Velcro wallet. 16:29.480 --> 16:33.480 And one of the Scottish people said, saw them opening it. 16:33.480 --> 16:37.480 And I'm hearing the, the traditional Velcro screech. 16:37.480 --> 16:39.480 I, yes, that's a good Scotch pocket. 16:39.480 --> 16:41.480 It screams when you open it. 16:41.480 --> 16:43.480 Ha ha ha ha. 16:43.480 --> 16:43.480 Yeah. 16:43.480 --> 16:46.480 Is that calling Scotch's cheap word that I missed the joke? 16:46.480 --> 16:47.480 Yeah. 16:47.480 --> 16:48.480 It's got some cheap. 16:48.480 --> 16:50.480 And climate sucks down co-hosts on here. 16:50.480 --> 16:52.480 That doesn't necessarily cheap. 16:52.480 --> 16:54.480 They just take to spend money. 16:54.480 --> 16:55.480 Okay. 16:55.480 --> 16:56.480 That's going to be something. 16:56.480 --> 16:59.480 I know it's not the same thing. 16:59.480 --> 17:00.480 Okay. 17:00.480 --> 17:04.480 We have a common stereotype that the Scotts are tight-fisted. 17:04.480 --> 17:08.480 It's not true from what I've experienced with Scottish people. 17:08.480 --> 17:11.480 But it's a funny little, you know, it's a funny stereotype. 17:11.480 --> 17:15.480 It's like a stereotype about, you know, people from the West Country always being drunk. 17:15.480 --> 17:17.480 Except that one's true. 17:17.480 --> 17:22.480 So the couple, the couple differences that I see immediately, not to be in my card. 17:22.480 --> 17:29.480 You can be generous and be happy to spend money on friends and family and still be cheap on a day-to-day basis. 17:29.480 --> 17:36.480 And you can also be thrifty or frugal and always go for like the best bang for your buck choice after doing some research. 17:36.480 --> 17:39.480 If thinking thought too hard about this, that just cheap. 17:39.480 --> 17:41.480 I think too hard about everything I can't turn it off. 17:41.480 --> 17:42.480 I'm sorry, fellas. 17:42.480 --> 17:44.480 I didn't mean to bring it down. 17:44.480 --> 17:51.480 There's another story about Americans who have a certain fear of debt. 17:51.480 --> 17:59.480 This guy said that his father or grandfather borrowed $10 from a farmer. 17:59.480 --> 18:05.480 And he said, the farmer never asked for his $10 back as long as he paid him a dollar a week. 18:05.480 --> 18:06.480 Good deal. 18:06.480 --> 18:10.480 If you're the farmer or the other guy, really, if you satisfied with that. 18:10.480 --> 18:13.480 I don't understand the point of the story, though. 18:13.480 --> 18:20.480 He acknowledged the obligation, but he never had to pay the principal back, just the intro. 18:20.480 --> 18:21.480 Yeah. 18:21.480 --> 18:22.480 No, I got that. 18:22.480 --> 18:25.480 But how did that relate to being afraid of debt? 18:25.480 --> 18:26.480 It's basically in America. 18:26.480 --> 18:27.480 Yeah. 18:27.480 --> 18:30.480 It's like the total amount of the land up paying is like $52. 18:30.480 --> 18:31.480 Is it because just paying the $10? 18:31.480 --> 18:32.480 Yeah. 18:32.480 --> 18:36.480 I had $25 in student loans and that's low. 18:36.480 --> 18:39.480 $25,000 in student loans is low. 18:39.480 --> 18:48.480 I've been paying on it for 10 years and I met like $15,000 and that's only because, you know, 18:48.480 --> 18:51.480 we weren't required to pay for a long time and I kept paying. 18:51.480 --> 18:58.480 So what you meant was that Americans are afraid to acknowledge the existence of the concept of debt 18:58.480 --> 19:01.480 before signing on to more of it than they can afford. 19:01.480 --> 19:04.480 Well, it's not a matter of signing on to more of it than you can afford. 19:04.480 --> 19:09.480 They sell you the American dream the only way to get ahead is to go to college, blah, blah, blah, 19:09.480 --> 19:11.480 get a better paying job, et cetera, et cetera. 19:11.480 --> 19:14.480 Now granted, most of that is, you know, garbage. 19:14.480 --> 19:21.480 But what they don't tell you and what they do with 18 year old kids that don't know any better with their finances 19:21.480 --> 19:24.480 is they do two things to put you in debt. 19:24.480 --> 19:27.480 One, they convince you to go to college that you can't afford to pay for. 19:27.480 --> 19:30.480 And in order to do that, you have to take out loans. 19:30.480 --> 19:38.480 And two, you're 18 years old, you need to be able to eat and dress so they get you on a credit card. 19:38.480 --> 19:44.480 And then, hey, look, zero APR for the first six months and then afterwards 24%. 19:44.480 --> 19:50.480 And they don't tell you how that works until, you know, you're paying it and you keep paying and you keep paying 19:50.480 --> 19:53.480 and the amount that you owe keeps staying the same. 19:53.480 --> 19:56.480 The first part, you're 100% correct about the second part. 19:56.480 --> 20:01.480 It can happen at any age, it's not just 18 and I think four has been heat up. 20:01.480 --> 20:09.480 But I think, I think it's predatory when it happens to any senior old that has never handled their own finances before. 20:09.480 --> 20:13.480 Yes, the things you listed are the bait and the credit is the trap. 20:13.480 --> 20:14.480 Yeah. 20:14.480 --> 20:21.480 So I was just going to say, in the UK, we have the world's stupidest sort of student loan system. 20:21.480 --> 20:23.480 So we never used to have student loans. 20:23.480 --> 20:28.480 We had an equal to student grant and it was basically paid for by taxes. 20:28.480 --> 20:29.480 Right. 20:29.480 --> 20:34.480 And then, all of a sudden, under the black government, I want to say it's a labour government, 20:34.480 --> 20:37.480 they introduced this idea of student loans. 20:37.480 --> 20:41.480 But so student loans can actually get extremely expensive in the UK. 20:41.480 --> 20:44.480 Like, you know, America, yes, you know, you're saying $25,000. 20:44.480 --> 20:47.480 My debt is currently 47,000 pounds. 20:47.480 --> 20:49.480 Did he just sell for every year? 20:49.480 --> 20:54.480 Obviously. The reason mine is only $25,000 is because our only came out, 20:54.480 --> 20:58.480 $25,000 is because I'm a veteran and I'm a disabled veteran. 20:58.480 --> 20:59.480 Right. 20:59.480 --> 21:01.480 And I was getting money from the government to go to school. 21:01.480 --> 21:04.480 It just wasn't enough to actually go to school and live. 21:04.480 --> 21:05.480 Sure. 21:05.480 --> 21:07.480 But I've got a friend who, you know, she went to, 21:07.480 --> 21:10.480 once I go call now and hers is less than mine. 21:10.480 --> 21:14.480 You know, I'm just saying it's not this sort of hard and fast thing of like Americans always pay more. 21:14.480 --> 21:17.480 In fact, mine ends up being pretty expensive. 21:17.480 --> 21:20.480 But the deal is a joke, you see. Here's the joke. 21:20.480 --> 21:23.480 We pay interest on that every month. 21:23.480 --> 21:26.480 And you can, if you want to, start paying it down. 21:26.480 --> 21:29.480 But after 30 years, they'll forget the debt anyway. 21:29.480 --> 21:30.480 Explain that. 21:30.480 --> 21:33.480 Because they want 30 years of payments from you. 21:33.480 --> 21:37.480 You can actually stop paying and they won't be able to find you most of the time. 21:37.480 --> 21:38.480 Oh, here they'll sign up. 21:38.480 --> 21:39.480 I get you. 21:39.480 --> 21:42.480 Well, I've already said, but oh, I want to add in. 21:42.480 --> 21:47.480 And then you also university was at 9,000 to get you most of the year. 21:47.480 --> 21:50.480 And I think it's gotten pretty, don't they? 21:50.480 --> 21:52.480 They do, if you're Scottish. 21:52.480 --> 21:53.480 If you're Scottish, yeah. 21:53.480 --> 21:58.480 And if you're Scottish and you go to a Scottish university or if you're Welsh and you go to a Welsh university, you get it for free. 21:58.480 --> 22:04.480 If you're English and you go to any university in the UK, you have to pay 9 grand a year, because nobody likes you. 22:04.480 --> 22:05.480 The world's hard. 22:05.480 --> 22:11.480 Except for one university, the one that I went to, the university of hard knocks, that's free. 22:11.480 --> 22:12.480 Oh, no. 22:12.480 --> 22:13.480 Well, there's a cost. 22:13.480 --> 22:14.480 It's just not monetary. 22:14.480 --> 22:15.480 It's not. 22:15.480 --> 22:16.480 It's not. 22:16.480 --> 22:17.480 Indeed. 22:17.480 --> 22:29.480 Actually, what you have interesting with with US student loans is the bankers put them ahead of any other debt or payment system. 22:29.480 --> 22:30.480 You're on disability. 22:30.480 --> 22:32.480 They'll suck up your student loan. 22:32.480 --> 22:35.480 Your, they'll suck up your disability pay to pay off your student loans. 22:35.480 --> 22:36.480 Yes. 22:36.480 --> 22:45.480 You can't get rid of the student loans by declaring bankruptcy. 22:45.480 --> 22:48.480 You can't get rid of the student loans by dying. 22:48.480 --> 22:53.480 It just, they will take it from your estate and anything left over goes to your family. 22:53.480 --> 22:54.480 Thanks a lot. 22:54.480 --> 22:55.480 Thanks a lot. 22:55.480 --> 22:56.480 But I didn't. 22:56.480 --> 23:00.480 Yeah, I paid them all early too, because I got it down to a point. 23:00.480 --> 23:02.480 Mind you, I'm in my 50s now. 23:02.480 --> 23:05.480 So I paid them off in my 40s, which is rare. 23:05.480 --> 23:09.480 But I got to a point where I looked at it and it was a certain amount. 23:09.480 --> 23:10.480 I'm like, how can I afford that? 23:10.480 --> 23:11.480 And I just paid it all off. 23:11.480 --> 23:12.480 They were probably. 23:12.480 --> 23:13.480 Yeah. 23:13.480 --> 23:14.480 Get rid of that interest. 23:14.480 --> 23:20.480 I, I may be at a point in my 40s where I earned enough money to pay off my student loans. 23:20.480 --> 23:23.480 But on principle, I will not pay off my student loans. 23:23.480 --> 23:25.480 I will wait for it to run out. 23:25.480 --> 23:26.480 I will stop paying it. 23:26.480 --> 23:30.480 The reason for that is that they changed the terms of the agreement after I signed it. 23:30.480 --> 23:33.480 So I don't see why I should have to pay them anything. 23:33.480 --> 23:35.480 Unfortunately, I'm not one of those people that can. 23:35.480 --> 23:36.480 20. 23:36.480 --> 23:41.480 I just feel like, you know, they, they, you know, the government changed the terms of the agreement. 23:41.480 --> 23:47.480 They changed the terms of the, um, of the sort of, uh, the, they changed the terms of how 23:47.480 --> 23:50.480 student loans were after I'd already signed up the student loans. 23:50.480 --> 23:52.480 So that invalidates the agreement I signed. 23:52.480 --> 23:54.480 So theoretically, I've not signed any agreement. 23:54.480 --> 23:55.480 Did you hear what they did? 23:55.480 --> 23:56.480 Did you hear what they did? 23:56.480 --> 23:57.480 It's the term that you hear. 23:57.480 --> 23:59.480 We do not change them anymore. 23:59.480 --> 24:00.480 Did you hear what they did? 24:00.480 --> 24:01.480 The teachers here. 24:01.480 --> 24:05.480 Um, essentially what happened was teachers require X amount of education, 24:05.480 --> 24:07.480 college education, of course, right? 24:07.480 --> 24:12.480 Well, the US government offered to pay for said education. 24:12.480 --> 24:18.480 If these teachers worked X amount of years for, uh, community schools, 24:18.480 --> 24:19.480 essentially. 24:19.480 --> 24:22.480 And, but you had to pay for it first. 24:22.480 --> 24:25.480 So you had to get the loans and pay for everything first. 24:25.480 --> 24:30.480 And then once these teachers went out and actually, you know, got the jobs that they were supposed 24:30.480 --> 24:32.480 to get in order to get this all paid for. 24:32.480 --> 24:34.480 There were like, no, we ran out of money. 24:34.480 --> 24:35.480 We're not paying anything. 24:35.480 --> 24:36.480 Enjoy your loans. 24:36.480 --> 24:37.480 Pay them back yourself. 24:37.480 --> 24:38.480 Classic. 24:38.480 --> 24:39.480 Classic. 24:39.480 --> 24:42.480 If I could just take the opportunity to quickly jump in, um, 24:42.480 --> 24:43.480 I'm going to take my leave. 24:43.480 --> 24:46.480 It's nothing to do with Joe Ressington having shown up. 24:46.480 --> 24:47.480 Um, John Ressington. 24:47.480 --> 24:51.480 But the last time he and I, but the last time he and I run an event similar to this one, 24:51.480 --> 24:55.480 we ended up talking about monetizing podcasting until four in the morning. 24:55.480 --> 24:57.480 And I ended up with a hangover. 24:57.480 --> 25:01.480 So you're leaving me now now. 25:01.480 --> 25:04.480 Now, generally, it's not to do with you, Joe. 25:04.480 --> 25:08.480 Um, I would happily speak with you for, you know, the next 12 hours about absolutely nothing 25:08.480 --> 25:09.480 at all. 25:09.480 --> 25:11.480 But, uh, unfortunately, I'm falling asleep. 25:11.480 --> 25:12.480 And my beer is just about to end. 25:12.480 --> 25:13.480 Well, let's see. 25:13.480 --> 25:15.480 You have to show the love bug later. 25:15.480 --> 25:17.480 So, uh, maybe we can tell that later. 25:17.480 --> 25:18.480 Yeah. 25:18.480 --> 25:19.480 Well, you'll still be. 25:19.480 --> 25:21.480 You'll still be on the go to midday. 25:21.480 --> 25:26.480 I think I think has your numbers on me cast a while ago, Joe Ress. 25:26.480 --> 25:27.480 Come back. 25:27.480 --> 25:28.480 Hang out. 25:28.480 --> 25:29.480 I've agreed. 25:29.480 --> 25:31.480 It's been a long, long time since I was on that show in my friend. 25:31.480 --> 25:32.480 Yeah. 25:32.480 --> 25:33.480 You should come back. 25:33.480 --> 25:37.480 I don't really use the next minute anymore, or advice anyone else is. 25:37.480 --> 25:42.480 So it would feel somewhat hypocritical to come back on that show in the fridge. 25:42.480 --> 25:43.480 Come back on a roadway. 25:43.480 --> 25:44.480 No way. 25:44.480 --> 25:45.480 No way. 25:45.480 --> 25:46.480 No way. 25:46.480 --> 25:47.480 Okay. 25:47.480 --> 25:48.480 That's crossing a line. 25:48.480 --> 25:49.480 Well, I just realized, Joe. 25:49.480 --> 25:50.480 I'm feeling we have it. 25:50.480 --> 25:51.480 We have it. 25:51.480 --> 25:52.480 We have it. 25:52.480 --> 25:55.480 Just through a neutral podcast that he could be right. 25:55.480 --> 25:56.480 Yeah. 25:56.480 --> 25:58.480 We don't have good enough, so I'm probably for Joe Ress. 25:58.480 --> 25:59.480 I'm the least luckest. 25:59.480 --> 26:04.480 Well, my it doesn't matter about destroy agnostic. 26:04.480 --> 26:07.480 I have an operating system agnostic approach. 26:07.480 --> 26:09.480 If you use windows, good for you. 26:09.480 --> 26:11.480 If you use macOS, good for you. 26:11.480 --> 26:14.480 If you use WSL, good for you. 26:14.480 --> 26:18.480 You know, I'm not going to necessarily use those things, but if you want to use it and 26:18.480 --> 26:21.480 you're happy and you get your job done, then I'm not going to judge you. 26:21.480 --> 26:24.480 That's not a very nice thing to do is it to judge people's choices. 26:24.480 --> 26:26.480 Well, of course, one can sign it. 26:26.480 --> 26:28.480 I'm a freaking happy. 26:28.480 --> 26:32.480 Well, we are extremely destroy agnostic on mint cast. 26:32.480 --> 26:33.480 Believe it or not. 26:33.480 --> 26:35.480 Yes, a lot of it is mint focused. 26:35.480 --> 26:39.480 But we're talking about anything that's going on in Linux in general. 26:39.480 --> 26:42.480 Otherwise, we'd run out of things to talk about real quick. 26:42.480 --> 26:43.480 Well, yeah. 26:43.480 --> 26:46.480 It's a podcast by the Linux Mint community for all users of Linux. 26:46.480 --> 26:47.480 Yeah. 26:47.480 --> 26:48.480 Yeah. 26:48.480 --> 26:49.480 It's one of those situations. 26:49.480 --> 26:51.480 We're like, I follow you on Masad on Twitter. 26:51.480 --> 26:54.480 And yeah, I've never actually encountered you in a room like this. 26:54.480 --> 26:55.480 So, hi. 26:55.480 --> 26:56.480 I think, hello. 26:56.480 --> 26:58.480 Do you and I have talked before, haven't we, Joe? 26:58.480 --> 26:59.480 I would imagine so. 26:59.480 --> 27:00.480 Yeah. 27:00.480 --> 27:01.480 On here. 27:01.480 --> 27:02.480 Yeah. 27:02.480 --> 27:03.480 Yeah. 27:03.480 --> 27:06.480 Almost every year, I pop in for a little bit because my wife goes to bed. 27:06.480 --> 27:08.480 And I'm just kind of drunk and bored. 27:08.480 --> 27:09.480 So, yeah. 27:09.480 --> 27:11.480 I'm kind of drunk and not bored. 27:11.480 --> 27:12.480 Is my audio back? 27:12.480 --> 27:13.480 And anyone hear me this time? 27:13.480 --> 27:14.480 Yeah. 27:14.480 --> 27:14.480 We can hear you. 27:14.480 --> 27:15.480 Yeah. 27:15.480 --> 27:16.480 Yes, I'm great. 27:16.480 --> 27:19.480 If you got what Mike's fun if you got, it sounds amazing. 27:19.480 --> 27:21.480 I have to look it up on Amazon. 27:21.480 --> 27:23.480 It's a little Sony stereo lapel, Mike. 27:23.480 --> 27:27.480 I was probably between seven and $17. 27:27.480 --> 27:28.480 Wow. 27:28.480 --> 27:29.480 Yeah. 27:29.480 --> 27:30.480 Sounds absolutely great. 27:30.480 --> 27:31.480 Yeah. 27:31.480 --> 27:32.480 It doesn't, like, it's a clip, Mike. 27:32.480 --> 27:34.480 It's a little thing you'd clip to your lapel. 27:34.480 --> 27:36.480 So, you've got to clip it someplace stable. 27:36.480 --> 27:38.480 And that's hard for me to do. 27:38.480 --> 27:41.480 So, it always, often you'll hear it bumping against my shirt. 27:41.480 --> 27:43.480 Like that or sliding around or something. 27:43.480 --> 27:44.480 Yeah. 27:44.480 --> 27:45.480 That sounds terrible. 27:45.480 --> 27:48.480 But when it's in the right position, that sounds absolutely great to me. 27:48.480 --> 27:49.480 Yeah. 27:49.480 --> 27:50.480 Yeah. 27:50.480 --> 27:52.480 If you could clip it to a Mike stand, you'd have a podcast set up. 27:52.480 --> 27:55.480 And it's just a two and a half millimeter plug. 27:55.480 --> 27:58.480 It's just, you know, you need a two and a half for the Mike and a two and a half 27:58.480 --> 28:02.480 your headphones as opposed to a four ring three and a half that has both. 28:02.480 --> 28:03.480 Or an adapter. 28:03.480 --> 28:04.480 It's just electrical. 28:04.480 --> 28:05.480 Interesting. 28:05.480 --> 28:07.480 Yeah. Well, sounds good as it is now. 28:07.480 --> 28:08.480 So, keep doing what you're doing. 28:08.480 --> 28:09.480 It's my advice. 28:09.480 --> 28:10.480 Oh, thank you, sir. 28:10.480 --> 28:12.480 Speaking of monetizing podcasts, 28:12.480 --> 28:14.480 who here has looked into cast a pod. 28:14.480 --> 28:16.480 Not me, but it sounds interesting. 28:16.480 --> 28:17.480 Please tell me more. 28:17.480 --> 28:18.480 Okay. 28:18.480 --> 28:21.480 So, cast a pod is a federated service. 28:21.480 --> 28:25.480 I know about them because I'm fun, quite a maintainer. 28:25.480 --> 28:28.480 And they do podcasting like we do. 28:28.480 --> 28:30.480 But they do a lot of additional things. 28:30.480 --> 28:33.480 Like they've got a lot of additional features and stuff like that. 28:33.480 --> 28:35.480 Such as monetizing podcasts. 28:35.480 --> 28:37.480 So, you get it's Fediver software, 28:37.480 --> 28:40.480 but it can do stuff like premium episodes and that sort of thing. 28:40.480 --> 28:41.480 How does it monetize them? 28:41.480 --> 28:44.480 What kind of monetizing when we're talking about? 28:44.480 --> 28:46.480 Well, it allows for things like I say, 28:46.480 --> 28:48.480 premium episodes. 28:48.480 --> 28:50.480 I imagine they integrate with payment providers 28:50.480 --> 28:53.480 in a standard way and then produce sort of subscribe 28:53.480 --> 28:55.480 a specific RSS feeds. 28:55.480 --> 28:57.480 In a similar way, it's something like sub stack. 28:57.480 --> 28:58.480 I don't actually know the technical details, 28:58.480 --> 29:00.480 but I'm guessing that's how they work. 29:00.480 --> 29:01.480 And they all hate drugs. 29:01.480 --> 29:02.480 They all hate drugs. 29:02.480 --> 29:03.480 Yeah, yeah. 29:03.480 --> 29:05.480 So, Patron, why are you so that? 29:05.480 --> 29:08.480 Yeah, because Patron, I upload advert for RSS feeds. 29:08.480 --> 29:12.480 That advert free episodes to an RSS feed that people can. 29:12.480 --> 29:13.480 Yeah. 29:13.480 --> 29:15.480 And like Patron takes care of all of the back end of that. 29:15.480 --> 29:16.480 And when people stop paying, 29:16.480 --> 29:18.480 like the RSS feeds stops working and stuff, 29:18.480 --> 29:20.480 and I don't have to do anything. 29:20.480 --> 29:21.480 Is that what you're talking about? 29:21.480 --> 29:23.480 Yeah, I'm sure of the financial handling 29:23.480 --> 29:25.480 or the content side of it. 29:25.480 --> 29:26.480 It's the content specifically. 29:26.480 --> 29:28.480 They don't handle all payments. 29:28.480 --> 29:30.480 They integrate with payment providers. 29:30.480 --> 29:32.480 I mean, this is one thing you'll notice 29:32.480 --> 29:34.480 about all of us Fediver's developers. 29:34.480 --> 29:37.480 We do not want to touch payments with a barge pole. 29:37.480 --> 29:39.480 That stuff is far too complicated 29:39.480 --> 29:41.480 and needs to be centralized. 29:41.480 --> 29:43.480 It cannot be done in a federated way. 29:43.480 --> 29:46.480 The best we can do in other projects. 29:46.480 --> 29:49.480 Well, I've heard of boosts for my friend. 29:49.480 --> 29:52.480 I've heard of the lightning network and boosts 29:52.480 --> 29:54.480 and Bitcoin and crypto. 29:54.480 --> 29:56.480 That's definitely the answer to this. 29:56.480 --> 29:58.480 And not total bullshit, 29:58.480 --> 30:01.480 pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme or whatever. 30:01.480 --> 30:03.480 It's definitely the future. 30:03.480 --> 30:06.480 Jorra, Jorra says that you live on that 30:06.480 --> 30:08.480 or is it just a way to get started? 30:08.480 --> 30:12.480 That was sarcasm and I do not recommend any of that. 30:12.480 --> 30:13.480 At all. 30:13.480 --> 30:17.480 And I agree that payment systems have to be centralized 30:17.480 --> 30:21.480 and regulated otherwise bad things happen long term. 30:21.480 --> 30:22.480 Well, thank you for clearing that. 30:22.480 --> 30:23.480 Okay. 30:23.480 --> 30:24.480 That sounded sincere. 30:24.480 --> 30:26.480 The best that we can do. 30:26.480 --> 30:29.480 British people is hard to tell sometimes. 30:29.480 --> 30:31.480 We sound sarcastic all the time. 30:31.480 --> 30:33.480 The best humor is my favorite. 30:33.480 --> 30:35.480 We're don't apologize for that. 30:35.480 --> 30:36.480 They just missed it. 30:36.480 --> 30:37.480 I'm not. 30:37.480 --> 30:39.480 I'm eight and a half out of ten tonight. 30:39.480 --> 30:42.480 Maybe I've been drinking. 30:42.480 --> 30:44.480 But the best that we can do is so. 30:44.480 --> 30:47.480 I work on another project called Retribute. 30:47.480 --> 30:50.480 And the idea is that it uses your Fediver's information, 30:50.480 --> 30:54.480 such as you can log in with MasterDarn or peer tube or funquail. 30:54.480 --> 31:00.480 And basically you can get a weighted list of who you've interacted with. 31:00.480 --> 31:02.480 So in the case of funquail, 31:02.480 --> 31:04.480 it's what artists have you listened to most. 31:04.480 --> 31:05.480 In the case of MasterDarn, 31:05.480 --> 31:07.480 who have you interacted with most peer tube, 31:07.480 --> 31:10.480 and then it basically aggregates those into a list, 31:10.480 --> 31:15.480 and gives you links to their payment providers that they have put in their profile or in their associated links. 31:15.480 --> 31:23.480 And the idea is we'd like to build on that to be more of a thing with a tool that can use put in place, 31:23.480 --> 31:25.480 budgeting and stuff like that. 31:25.480 --> 31:35.480 Just to make that kind of user-driven donation model more readily available and apparent in the Fediver's. 31:35.480 --> 31:39.480 And what podcast to pod do is more traditional. 31:39.480 --> 31:41.480 They do sort of, like I say, 31:41.480 --> 31:50.480 they have like, like Patreon, like substat, they have this paid RSS feed for specifically paid content paid episodes. 31:50.480 --> 31:52.480 And they also, I believe, do, 31:52.480 --> 31:58.480 they have the ability to add things like region-specific advertising. 31:58.480 --> 32:00.480 I believe it's the thing they can do. 32:00.480 --> 32:02.480 Oh, have you heard that personally? 32:02.480 --> 32:07.480 I get a lot of it, because I live in Germany, so my podcast that are in English 32:07.480 --> 32:10.480 get disrupted by Germans talking about. 32:10.480 --> 32:14.480 Of course I'm just like, when's the first time you notice that? 32:14.480 --> 32:16.480 Oh, it's been there for ages. 32:16.480 --> 32:17.480 Like, I've noticed it. 32:17.480 --> 32:23.480 I'm think I probably started noticing it around 2017, 2018, something other? 32:23.480 --> 32:27.480 Okay, because I was thinking only heard it maybe a year and a half ago. 32:27.480 --> 32:33.480 It's becoming really big. 32:33.480 --> 32:35.480 Dude, I'm sorry. 32:35.480 --> 32:38.480 I hate it, but that is impressive tech that your pod catcher obviously has to report an address. 32:38.480 --> 32:41.480 But the server can go, okay, that address. 32:41.480 --> 32:44.480 We insert these ads at these locations, these timestamps, 32:44.480 --> 32:51.480 and recompile on the fly in less than the time that it takes to download our finished podcast. 32:51.480 --> 32:54.480 Well, more than likely what they do is, 32:54.480 --> 32:59.480 and I've not looked into the tech, but my imagination is that they have a central server, 32:59.480 --> 33:02.480 and basically they get a report back of a location from the podcast, 33:02.480 --> 33:05.480 and they fish out whatever ad makes sense there. 33:05.480 --> 33:07.480 It's the same link. 33:07.480 --> 33:08.480 I feed. 33:08.480 --> 33:10.480 No, I don't think so. 33:10.480 --> 33:12.480 It's actually way more sinister than that. 33:12.480 --> 33:15.480 If you're dealing with Spotify's one that they bought, 33:15.480 --> 33:18.480 it's way more sinister. 33:18.480 --> 33:25.480 What's the same thing? 33:25.480 --> 33:26.480 All right, don't forget what you're going to say, 33:26.480 --> 33:29.480 because I'm going to say whatever Joe's about to say is correct. 33:29.480 --> 33:32.480 And here's why I know what he's about to say is correct. 33:32.480 --> 33:35.480 He's why I know it's not just pre-compiled for the regions, 33:35.480 --> 33:37.480 because I've used it while traveling, 33:37.480 --> 33:39.480 and you can get there are, 33:39.480 --> 33:44.480 there are venn diagram overlap areas on the physical map of the United States, 33:44.480 --> 33:47.480 where those ads will change in the same episode. 33:47.480 --> 33:50.480 Well, not once it's been downloaded, 33:50.480 --> 33:53.480 but from the same server, from the same podcast, 33:53.480 --> 33:57.480 and it doesn't take 100 miles or so to do it. 33:57.480 --> 34:02.480 I think it is based on, at least here in the States, 34:02.480 --> 34:07.480 the three letter code for the nearest airport, 34:07.480 --> 34:09.480 because that's the way weather is done. 34:09.480 --> 34:12.480 It's not by zip code, it's not as granular as town, 34:12.480 --> 34:14.480 but it may be by weather region. 34:14.480 --> 34:17.480 No, it's way more sinister than that, I'm afraid. 34:17.480 --> 34:19.480 It's based on you. 34:19.480 --> 34:22.480 It's based on, I mean, in theory, let's face it, 34:22.480 --> 34:24.480 this tech is relatively new, 34:24.480 --> 34:26.480 and it's part of the whole ad tech, 34:26.480 --> 34:29.480 spying, whatever you want to call it, tracking, 34:29.480 --> 34:33.480 and we can easily fit into a slot in the database. 34:33.480 --> 34:36.480 Well, yeah, but so the deal with it is, 34:36.480 --> 34:40.480 what you're talking about is dynamically inserted ads, 34:40.480 --> 34:43.480 and so the technology of that's relatively straightforward. 34:43.480 --> 34:46.480 It's quite a beefy server, server. 34:46.480 --> 34:49.480 Your podcast client requests a download. 34:49.480 --> 34:52.480 They make a decision on what ads are going to get stitched in. 34:52.480 --> 34:54.480 They get stitched in less than a second, 34:54.480 --> 34:55.480 into the order of file, 34:55.480 --> 34:57.480 and then it gets downloaded to your, 34:57.480 --> 34:59.480 or streamed to your device, 34:59.480 --> 35:01.480 and then you have the ads that they have decided. 35:01.480 --> 35:03.480 That's, I mean, we're all technical. 35:03.480 --> 35:06.480 We understand how you could do that if you had a beefy enough server, 35:06.480 --> 35:09.480 but how they make the decision, that's the sinister part. 35:09.480 --> 35:14.480 So they, I mean, it's much like how this decision is made 35:14.480 --> 35:19.480 when you're browsing without ad block enabled on web pages. 35:19.480 --> 35:21.480 They are targeted at you. 35:21.480 --> 35:24.480 You, you Google searched for, I don't know, 35:24.480 --> 35:26.480 what did I search for recently? 35:26.480 --> 35:27.480 Bluetooth speakers, 35:27.480 --> 35:31.480 and then I just get bombarded with loads of different Bluetooth speaker ads 35:31.480 --> 35:32.480 everywhere I go. 35:32.480 --> 35:35.480 And so the theory is that there's a punchline. 35:35.480 --> 35:39.480 Sorry, sorry, you've got my other sense this. 35:39.480 --> 35:41.480 I think I was like, why are they talking about that? 35:41.480 --> 35:43.480 Although I think I've got this now. 35:43.480 --> 35:44.480 Well, I might be a totally odd one. 35:44.480 --> 35:46.480 But anyway, instead of major, okay? 35:46.480 --> 35:48.480 I listen to say a, 35:48.480 --> 35:53.480 a metal station from Germany or France or whatever, 35:53.480 --> 35:55.480 but it'll actually Netherlands begin with. 35:55.480 --> 35:56.480 And what I notice suddenly, 35:56.480 --> 35:59.480 as I was getting my kind of local advert, 35:59.480 --> 36:00.480 like I was looking like, 36:00.480 --> 36:04.480 why am I getting a local advert for whatever and Bristol? 36:04.480 --> 36:07.480 Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. 36:07.480 --> 36:10.480 Yeah, I mean, it's a cause of its location. 36:10.480 --> 36:12.480 Obviously. 36:12.480 --> 36:15.480 Well, so Joe had my stuff like quick, quick punchline, 36:15.480 --> 36:17.480 and then you get back, please. 36:17.480 --> 36:21.480 It doesn't work because after you buy the Bluetooth speaker, 36:21.480 --> 36:23.480 you get those same ads for the next three months, 36:23.480 --> 36:25.480 so they really don't know shit. 36:25.480 --> 36:26.480 All they can do is watch. 36:26.480 --> 36:28.480 That's the upside to this. That's the bright side. 36:28.480 --> 36:30.480 Well, that's one way of looking at it. 36:30.480 --> 36:31.480 Another way of looking at it is, 36:31.480 --> 36:34.480 I have a return period, and I may see an advert for a Bluetooth speaker 36:34.480 --> 36:36.480 that's better than the one that I bought, 36:36.480 --> 36:37.480 and I may return this one to Amazon, 36:37.480 --> 36:39.480 then you can add it back to India to be burnt, 36:39.480 --> 36:43.480 and then I will buy a better one for a cheaper price potentially. 36:43.480 --> 36:45.480 But anyway, as I was saying, 36:45.480 --> 36:47.480 it's kind of based on, 36:47.480 --> 36:51.480 Well, you may have your IP address on the internet radio station, 36:51.480 --> 36:53.480 and go, how are you actually in Britain? 36:53.480 --> 36:56.480 So in that case, here's the other up to you. 36:56.480 --> 36:58.480 But we hear you, Zav, live there, 36:58.480 --> 37:01.480 or just not letting you interrupt the conversation to say to a year you. 37:01.480 --> 37:03.480 Yes, Moss, we hear you. 37:03.480 --> 37:05.480 Ah, well, now I hear me. 37:05.480 --> 37:08.480 I had the headphone plugged in a wrong port. 37:08.480 --> 37:11.480 That's what the repeater bought for. Have you tried the repeater bought? 37:11.480 --> 37:12.480 I have no idea. 37:12.480 --> 37:15.480 Dude, it's the audio test room. 37:15.480 --> 37:16.480 If you go in there, 37:16.480 --> 37:18.480 you'll get a personalized repeater bought 37:18.480 --> 37:21.480 that you can sound checked before popping into a room. 37:21.480 --> 37:22.480 Well, I'm good. 37:22.480 --> 37:23.480 Yes, you are. 37:23.480 --> 37:24.480 I hope. 37:24.480 --> 37:25.480 Anyway, the two long-term rate 37:25.480 --> 37:28.480 is that it's somewhat based on location. 37:28.480 --> 37:33.480 They try and make it based on your own profile that they build around you, 37:33.480 --> 37:37.480 and they are constantly improving that profile on everyone, 37:37.480 --> 37:40.480 and it is sinister, and I don't like it. 37:40.480 --> 37:41.480 Whatever. 37:41.480 --> 37:46.480 What is sinister in the way that all add tech and tracking is sinister? 37:46.480 --> 37:50.480 Because you see, I believe I firmly believe in advertising 37:50.480 --> 37:53.480 as a way to monetize anything on the internet, 37:53.480 --> 37:55.480 because that's how it's always been done, 37:55.480 --> 37:57.480 and how I believe it will always be done. 37:57.480 --> 37:59.480 I don't think that people want to pay for things. 37:59.480 --> 38:01.480 I think people want things for free. 38:01.480 --> 38:03.480 The bottom line is you need to have ads, 38:03.480 --> 38:05.480 but I don't believe that those ads need to be targeted at individuals. 38:05.480 --> 38:07.480 I think they need to be targeted to the content. 38:07.480 --> 38:11.480 So, if you have a great blog post about Bluetooth speakers, 38:11.480 --> 38:15.480 then you should have a ton of ads next to it about Bluetooth speakers. 38:15.480 --> 38:19.480 And if you have a podcast about Linux and open source, 38:19.480 --> 38:21.480 then you should have adverts 38:21.480 --> 38:24.480 that are relevant to the kind of person who would listen to that. 38:24.480 --> 38:27.480 So, let's say, I answer the same question, sir. 38:27.480 --> 38:28.480 Yeah. 38:28.480 --> 38:30.480 I'm going to be listening about AFK. 38:30.480 --> 38:34.480 It's sinister in that it feeds you an echo chamber, 38:34.480 --> 38:36.480 and they don't tell you that that's what they're doing, 38:36.480 --> 38:38.480 and people really like echo chambers, 38:38.480 --> 38:41.480 so they don't bother to check that that's what's being done. 38:41.480 --> 38:43.480 Can I just interject here? 38:43.480 --> 38:44.480 This is my day job. 38:44.480 --> 38:47.480 I work for a company called Adjust. 38:47.480 --> 38:50.480 We are at mobile, had to take company. 38:50.480 --> 38:54.480 So, I get to see all this stuff happening on the back end. 38:54.480 --> 38:56.480 I am absolutely on board. 38:56.480 --> 38:58.480 I don't agree with what we do either. 38:58.480 --> 39:00.480 Yeah, I'm totally against it. 39:00.480 --> 39:03.480 It's just a job that got me into a country that I wanted to live in. 39:03.480 --> 39:05.480 But for a good reason. 39:05.480 --> 39:09.480 I will just say, on this front, 39:09.480 --> 39:13.480 sinister is perhaps the wrong way to look at it. 39:13.480 --> 39:18.480 If only because the algorithms, 39:18.480 --> 39:21.480 quote unquote, that are making these decisions, 39:21.480 --> 39:26.480 are entirely dumb, have no knowledge of what you are who you are. 39:26.480 --> 39:27.480 Don't want to know. 39:27.480 --> 39:30.480 So, when we say personal data is being collected about you, 39:30.480 --> 39:33.480 the thing that's being collected, at least on the mobile, 39:33.480 --> 39:35.480 I mean, web is worse, web is a lot worse. 39:35.480 --> 39:37.480 Don't let me, you know, don't let me give it. 39:37.480 --> 39:38.480 Don't get me wrong. 39:38.480 --> 39:42.480 The web cookie tracking, that stuff is really bad. 39:42.480 --> 39:44.480 But for mobile tech, 39:44.480 --> 39:50.480 basically your device has a GDPR compliant advertising ID on it. 39:50.480 --> 39:53.480 It is a string of numbers, it's a UUID, 39:53.480 --> 39:56.480 basically a string of numbers and text. 39:56.480 --> 39:58.480 It could be reset at any time. 39:58.480 --> 40:00.480 And at that point, any data collected on you 40:00.480 --> 40:02.480 is worthless, frankly, 40:02.480 --> 40:07.480 because it no longer reports back anything associated with you. 40:07.480 --> 40:09.480 The app. 40:09.480 --> 40:10.480 Yeah. 40:10.480 --> 40:12.480 Go ahead, seven, and I'm next. 40:12.480 --> 40:15.480 I was talking about the internet media, 40:15.480 --> 40:16.480 which is read to me the same thing. 40:16.480 --> 40:18.480 We were talking about it. 40:18.480 --> 40:21.480 But if I'm just into internet radio, 40:21.480 --> 40:23.480 and I pick the foreign country, 40:23.480 --> 40:25.480 I don't want to hear that stupid local advert, 40:25.480 --> 40:26.480 I already don't. 40:26.480 --> 40:29.480 In fact, I've already heard that their adverts, 40:29.480 --> 40:31.480 like you would on the radio station, 40:31.480 --> 40:32.480 like it's really just one, 40:32.480 --> 40:34.480 I was getting the local adverts. 40:34.480 --> 40:37.480 But they had done by peer dress advertising 40:37.480 --> 40:39.480 and things like that. 40:39.480 --> 40:43.480 And then I gave up cookies and other things as well, 40:43.480 --> 40:44.480 and into that. 40:44.480 --> 40:46.480 And Google's file, and that's as well. 40:46.480 --> 40:47.480 Well, yes. 40:47.480 --> 40:52.480 But who in, so if you want to listen to a podcast 40:52.480 --> 40:54.480 that sprouts from Indonesia, 40:54.480 --> 40:57.480 who in Indonesia gives a shit if you hear their ad. 40:57.480 --> 40:59.480 So those aren't the ones you're going to pay for your hearing. 40:59.480 --> 41:00.480 Oh, yeah. 41:00.480 --> 41:02.480 The lumber store up the street from you, 41:02.480 --> 41:05.480 however, has discovered that people are listening to podcasts, 41:05.480 --> 41:08.480 and you'll hear an ad for the lumber store up the street from you, 41:08.480 --> 41:10.480 and they want you to get their ad. 41:10.480 --> 41:12.480 And I've got to say, 41:12.480 --> 41:14.480 well done in the execution. 41:14.480 --> 41:19.480 I don't love the implementation or being subject to it, 41:19.480 --> 41:22.480 but well done in its implementation. 41:22.480 --> 41:23.480 Now I forgot my question. 41:23.480 --> 41:24.480 So continue. 41:24.480 --> 41:28.480 Well, that's mostly to hear some local advert when you don't want to. 41:28.480 --> 41:30.480 In fact, I want local advert. 41:30.480 --> 41:33.480 It's a ton of normal radio on the BBC, whatever. 41:33.480 --> 41:35.480 But that's inside the point. 41:35.480 --> 41:38.480 That's not one of the ads. 41:38.480 --> 41:39.480 You either get ads and you pay for the content. 41:39.480 --> 41:41.480 That's neither here nor there. 41:41.480 --> 41:43.480 I'm just saying, if you have to have ads, 41:43.480 --> 41:46.480 it's better for the guy paying for the ad 41:46.480 --> 41:48.480 that he hits someone local. 41:48.480 --> 41:50.480 And frankly, it's probably better for me 41:50.480 --> 41:52.480 if the guy pay into someone local. 41:52.480 --> 41:54.480 Because at least then I got a chance 41:54.480 --> 41:57.480 of keeping a small business in business. 41:57.480 --> 41:58.480 Well, I guess just due to repeat, 41:58.480 --> 42:00.480 I don't know what I'm tendable from, 42:00.480 --> 42:01.480 I have a country, 42:01.480 --> 42:04.480 and then I guess it doesn't really matter. 42:04.480 --> 42:07.480 Well, the research that has been done, 42:07.480 --> 42:09.480 and there is a lot of research around this, 42:09.480 --> 42:11.480 is that actually people find targeted 42:11.480 --> 42:13.480 as much less annoying than general ads. 42:13.480 --> 42:15.480 Because targeted ads actually have a chance 42:15.480 --> 42:18.480 of meaning something to them and what Joe was suggesting, 42:18.480 --> 42:20.480 which was the targeted content ad ads 42:20.480 --> 42:22.480 would probably fit this as well. 42:22.480 --> 42:26.480 But general ads that do not have anything to do with you 42:26.480 --> 42:30.480 have no basis in your prior search history 42:30.480 --> 42:33.480 or in the case of mobile ad tech in your prior installs 42:33.480 --> 42:35.480 are actually considered much more annoying 42:35.480 --> 42:38.480 by most users than ads that actually 42:38.480 --> 42:40.480 means something to them. 42:40.480 --> 42:44.480 This is why when Apple introduced iOS 14, 42:44.480 --> 42:46.480 they introduced this thing called the 42:46.480 --> 42:49.480 SK ad network and with it 42:49.480 --> 42:51.480 the sort of corollary privacy tools, 42:51.480 --> 42:53.480 quote unquote, 42:53.480 --> 42:57.480 which allows people to block the ad ad, 42:57.480 --> 43:00.480 which is that string of numbers I was talking about. 43:00.480 --> 43:02.480 Can I ask you a quick question since this is your jar, 43:02.480 --> 43:04.480 or forget this question if I don't ask now. 43:04.480 --> 43:06.480 Who's more valuable to you? 43:06.480 --> 43:08.480 The average user or people, 43:08.480 --> 43:10.480 I don't want to say like us, 43:10.480 --> 43:11.480 but frankly like us, 43:11.480 --> 43:15.480 who recognize that this is going on. 43:15.480 --> 43:17.480 Everybody knows it's going on. 43:17.480 --> 43:19.480 The most valuable people are... 43:19.480 --> 43:20.480 No. 43:20.480 --> 43:23.480 There's no space book in shit. 43:23.480 --> 43:25.480 Well, yeah, but here's the thing. 43:25.480 --> 43:27.480 So, there are a few things. 43:27.480 --> 43:29.480 There are classifications and if you've ever done 43:29.480 --> 43:32.480 any research into gaming apps you know this, 43:32.480 --> 43:34.480 there are classifications people 43:34.480 --> 43:36.480 that go all the way from basically 43:36.480 --> 43:38.480 not payers to what they call whales. 43:38.480 --> 43:40.480 There are a very small number of users 43:40.480 --> 43:43.480 who are responsible for the vast majority of purchases. 43:43.480 --> 43:47.480 The average user does not purchase things based on advertisements. 43:47.480 --> 43:48.480 It just doesn't happen. 43:48.480 --> 43:51.480 That's not what advertisers know this. 43:51.480 --> 43:53.480 They're casting a very wide net. 43:53.480 --> 43:56.480 They know that they're basically going to be in every 43:56.480 --> 43:59.480 out of no 10,000 people they get. 43:59.480 --> 44:01.480 There's actually only going to be maybe 15 who actually buy, 44:01.480 --> 44:02.480 but they buy a lot. 44:02.480 --> 44:04.480 There are people with a lot of disposable income. 44:04.480 --> 44:07.480 But back to the point that was going on about the podcast, 44:07.480 --> 44:11.480 the most valuable thing when it comes to advertising 44:11.480 --> 44:14.480 and targeted advertising is not you. 44:14.480 --> 44:16.480 It is not knowing about your previous actions. 44:16.480 --> 44:18.480 It's not knowing about your previous behaviour. 44:18.480 --> 44:20.480 It is your location. 44:20.480 --> 44:21.480 Where are you currently? 44:21.480 --> 44:24.480 Because that is what links this up 44:24.480 --> 44:27.480 to different businesses that might have a chance 44:27.480 --> 44:29.480 that's selling you something right now. 44:29.480 --> 44:33.480 When you have apps that are asking for location access, 44:33.480 --> 44:36.480 one of the big reasons for this is it's super important 44:36.480 --> 44:38.480 that they know where you are right now 44:38.480 --> 44:40.480 so that they can start recommending things to you. 44:40.480 --> 44:42.480 That's in the local area that you might go and buy. 44:42.480 --> 44:45.480 That's how companies like mine get asked 44:45.480 --> 44:48.480 to put ads in front of people who are nearby. 44:48.480 --> 44:53.480 That's the most important thing in advertising. 44:53.480 --> 44:56.480 Is it useless to tell? 44:56.480 --> 44:59.480 Go back to your point. 44:59.480 --> 45:02.480 If somebody in Indonesia has an ad, 45:02.480 --> 45:05.480 why would they want me in the UK to hear that ad? 45:05.480 --> 45:06.480 They don't. 45:06.480 --> 45:08.480 It doesn't do anything for them. 45:08.480 --> 45:09.480 It doesn't help them in any way. 45:09.480 --> 45:15.480 Unless they have a online service 45:15.480 --> 45:16.480 through it when they hear. 45:16.480 --> 45:18.480 Unless they have some sort of service 45:18.480 --> 45:21.480 that is online and can be purchased from anywhere. 45:21.480 --> 45:23.480 Say a cloud provider. 45:23.480 --> 45:24.480 For example. 45:24.480 --> 45:25.480 Sure. 45:25.480 --> 45:26.480 Are these things for you? 45:26.480 --> 45:29.480 All of us just didn't say that radio. 45:29.480 --> 45:31.480 Well, but I can really see this point. 45:31.480 --> 45:33.480 But I mean, in this assistant radio, 45:33.480 --> 45:34.480 there's a chat. 45:34.480 --> 45:35.480 I've got a link to Sweden. 45:35.480 --> 45:36.480 I don't want... 45:36.480 --> 45:38.480 Oh, just the Swedish radio statement. 45:38.480 --> 45:40.480 In fact, I might even go to Sweden. 45:40.480 --> 45:41.480 Then I might be gay. 45:41.480 --> 45:42.480 It wasn't there. 45:42.480 --> 45:43.480 And I've probably been gay. 45:43.480 --> 45:43.480 I've never been gay. 45:43.480 --> 45:44.480 I've never been gay. 45:44.480 --> 45:45.480 I've never been gay. 45:45.480 --> 45:46.480 I've never been gay. 45:46.480 --> 45:47.480 I've never been gay. 45:47.480 --> 45:48.480 I've never been gay. 45:48.480 --> 45:49.480 Whatever. 45:49.480 --> 45:51.480 You've got more chance of saying something 45:51.480 --> 45:53.480 if it's local, but it's a bit annoying 45:53.480 --> 45:55.480 when you listen to something that's otherwise 45:55.480 --> 45:57.480 and whatever. 45:57.480 --> 45:59.480 You go, I don't know. 45:59.480 --> 46:03.480 Advertisers don't care about what's annoying. 46:03.480 --> 46:05.480 If they didn't, they wouldn't advertise. 46:05.480 --> 46:06.480 Yeah. 46:06.480 --> 46:08.480 They care about... 46:08.480 --> 46:11.480 They care about ROI, return on investment. 46:11.480 --> 46:12.480 Yeah, they care about ROI. 46:12.480 --> 46:14.480 And is to your point, 46:14.480 --> 46:16.480 where it says that they, 46:16.480 --> 46:18.480 maybe I'll go to Sweden one day. 46:18.480 --> 46:19.480 It doesn't matter. 46:19.480 --> 46:20.480 That's one day. 46:20.480 --> 46:21.480 That's not today. 46:21.480 --> 46:22.480 That's not right now. 46:22.480 --> 46:23.480 I want your money now. 46:23.480 --> 46:24.480 That's advertisers. 46:24.480 --> 46:27.480 Is there a way for the internet solar to target locations, 46:27.480 --> 46:29.480 just like local sellers do? 46:29.480 --> 46:32.480 And is there a way for them to determine which locations 46:32.480 --> 46:34.480 are better and worse for them? 46:34.480 --> 46:35.480 Are you into that yet? 46:35.480 --> 46:36.480 Sure. 46:36.480 --> 46:39.480 I mean, there is good research to indicate 46:39.480 --> 46:41.480 when, you know, for example, 46:41.480 --> 46:45.480 going to Joe's point about cloud resellers and stuff like that, 46:45.480 --> 46:47.480 whereas it most useful to hear about that. 46:47.480 --> 46:50.480 In other cities, London, New York, places like that, 46:50.480 --> 46:52.480 where people are working for businesses, 46:52.480 --> 46:55.480 where they're most likely to actually be working in an industry. 46:55.480 --> 46:58.480 So, for example, you're going to get bombarded with that kind of thing in Silicon Valley, 46:58.480 --> 47:00.480 but maybe less so in rural Yorkshire. 47:00.480 --> 47:01.480 But there's no point. 47:01.480 --> 47:03.480 So those are services, yes? 47:03.480 --> 47:04.480 Sure. 47:04.480 --> 47:04.480 Yeah. 47:04.480 --> 47:05.480 Those are like cloud services. 47:05.480 --> 47:06.480 AWS, for example. 47:06.480 --> 47:08.480 How about... 47:08.480 --> 47:10.480 And I'm not arguing with you. 47:10.480 --> 47:11.480 I'm sorry. 47:11.480 --> 47:12.480 This is really fascinating. 47:12.480 --> 47:14.480 It's just spurring questions out of me. 47:14.480 --> 47:16.480 What about material goods? 47:16.480 --> 47:18.480 If I want to sell... 47:18.480 --> 47:20.480 I just bought a new little CNC machine, 47:20.480 --> 47:21.480 and I think I'm doing good with it, 47:21.480 --> 47:25.480 and I want to be able to sell CNC goods 47:25.480 --> 47:27.480 to motorcycleists. 47:27.480 --> 47:29.480 Sorry, that was predictable. 47:29.480 --> 47:31.480 No, I think... 47:31.480 --> 47:33.480 No paper. 47:33.480 --> 47:36.480 You can advertise like this on the local 47:36.480 --> 47:38.480 on that radio station, like podcast, whatever, 47:38.480 --> 47:40.480 because you're not a company. 47:40.480 --> 47:42.480 I think with the answer to that, 47:42.480 --> 47:43.480 if you're just a person, 47:43.480 --> 47:46.480 that's what you kind of get. 47:46.480 --> 47:49.480 I mean, I'm talking specifically, 47:49.480 --> 47:51.480 like, I don't know about radio advertising. 47:51.480 --> 47:52.480 That's the only per few. 47:52.480 --> 47:54.480 I just know about mobile advertising. 47:54.480 --> 47:55.480 And to the point... 47:55.480 --> 47:56.480 That was... 47:56.480 --> 47:57.480 Yes, that is my question. 47:57.480 --> 48:01.480 It is a serial advertising target that people... 48:01.480 --> 48:02.480 No. 48:02.480 --> 48:03.480 No. 48:03.480 --> 48:04.480 No. 48:04.480 --> 48:05.480 I'm stepping up on what I think... 48:05.480 --> 48:06.480 Step up. 48:06.480 --> 48:07.480 Say I want to... 48:07.480 --> 48:09.480 I want to turn this from a hobby into a business, 48:09.480 --> 48:11.480 or I want to turn this from a business 48:11.480 --> 48:13.480 into a slightly larger business. 48:13.480 --> 48:14.480 Can I still... 48:14.480 --> 48:16.480 I'm asking specifically to sport. 48:16.480 --> 48:18.480 If can I still find... 48:18.480 --> 48:19.480 And I sell on the internet. 48:19.480 --> 48:20.480 I'm not just a local guy. 48:20.480 --> 48:21.480 I want to step it up from... 48:21.480 --> 48:22.480 I do good locally. 48:22.480 --> 48:24.480 I want to step it up. 48:24.480 --> 48:26.480 My internet sales can... 48:26.480 --> 48:28.480 Have you dabbled it? 48:28.480 --> 48:31.480 I want to ask a specifically about your platform 48:31.480 --> 48:32.480 that you work for. 48:32.480 --> 48:34.480 I'm trying to frame it outside of that. 48:34.480 --> 48:35.480 But can I... 48:35.480 --> 48:38.480 Do you understand, as a guy who would explain it to me? 48:38.480 --> 48:40.480 How a person... 48:40.480 --> 48:43.480 In that scenario would target a podcast listener... 48:43.480 --> 48:45.480 Physically on the globe. 48:45.480 --> 48:48.480 So, just kind of outline what my business does. 48:48.480 --> 48:49.480 We're in the... 48:49.480 --> 48:51.480 We're in the sort of business of... 48:51.480 --> 48:52.480 What's called... 48:52.480 --> 48:54.480 It's called... 48:54.480 --> 48:56.480 It's a mobile measurement. 48:56.480 --> 48:57.480 What we do... 48:57.480 --> 48:59.480 I'm a technical writer. 48:59.480 --> 49:01.480 I don't get into the actual programming and it's a gritty. 49:01.480 --> 49:05.480 But basically what we do is we attribute things like app installs 49:05.480 --> 49:08.480 to the advertise that that succeeded in getting you to install it. 49:08.480 --> 49:11.480 So, the stuff we're talking about specifically is apps. 49:11.480 --> 49:13.480 But theoretically, from what you're talking about, 49:13.480 --> 49:16.480 there are lots of different factors here. 49:16.480 --> 49:20.480 Advertisers do collect large bases of information about... 49:20.480 --> 49:23.480 Yes, you and your behavior as an individual. 49:23.480 --> 49:25.480 But also, like I say, 49:25.480 --> 49:28.480 the generalized information about the area you live in. 49:28.480 --> 49:31.480 To take your example about motorcycle equipment. 49:31.480 --> 49:35.480 If you happen to be in an area such as... 49:35.480 --> 49:38.480 You are, let's say, you're in Wisconsin. 49:38.480 --> 49:39.480 Okay? 49:39.480 --> 49:41.480 You're in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 49:41.480 --> 49:42.480 And... 49:42.480 --> 49:43.480 You probably did. 49:43.480 --> 49:45.480 It's the home of Harley Davidson. 49:45.480 --> 49:49.480 It's also, let's say, for example, it is currently the Harley Davidson festival. 49:49.480 --> 49:54.480 There is a very good chance that because you're in that location at that time, 49:54.480 --> 49:59.480 even if you yourself do not have a history of doing anything with motorcycles. 49:59.480 --> 50:04.480 You are suddenly surrounded by a bunch of people who are involved with motorcycles 50:04.480 --> 50:07.480 and are very, you know, we are talking thousands here. 50:07.480 --> 50:09.480 So there's a big concentration there, 50:09.480 --> 50:11.480 and they're basically going to catch a cast or net. 50:11.480 --> 50:13.480 So say geographically, 50:13.480 --> 50:17.480 I want to basically target this area for however long. 50:17.480 --> 50:18.480 So it was a business. 50:18.480 --> 50:19.480 So it was a business. 50:19.480 --> 50:21.480 So the way that this would work for you is you... 50:21.480 --> 50:22.480 It's a healthy capitalization. 50:22.480 --> 50:23.480 It's geographic. 50:23.480 --> 50:25.480 Yeah, there's loads of different... 50:25.480 --> 50:27.480 This stuff is really complicated, 50:27.480 --> 50:30.480 but the way it would work for you as a business owner now 50:30.480 --> 50:32.480 is you would go to an advertiser and say, 50:32.480 --> 50:36.480 I am going to give you basically this much money. 50:36.480 --> 50:38.480 And I want you to put my ads in front of people 50:38.480 --> 50:41.480 and the return on investment I want from that is this much in sales. 50:41.480 --> 50:45.480 And the advertisers job to then use their body of knowledge 50:45.480 --> 50:49.480 to put that ad in front of as many people as possible. 50:49.480 --> 50:52.480 My software, for example, the software I work on, 50:52.480 --> 50:54.480 if this were an app, for example, 50:54.480 --> 50:56.480 you have an app and you want to advertise it. 50:56.480 --> 51:00.480 The software that I work on would basically determine 51:00.480 --> 51:03.480 who gets paid for the install. 51:03.480 --> 51:07.480 So when a user clicks an ad and gets taken to the app store 51:07.480 --> 51:09.480 to install that app, an advertiser needs to be paid. 51:09.480 --> 51:11.480 Now you might have got three advertisers 51:11.480 --> 51:13.480 advertising the app in the same way. 51:13.480 --> 51:16.480 You need to know which one of them got that done. 51:16.480 --> 51:19.480 And so basically advertisers are always vying 51:19.480 --> 51:23.480 to be the one who got the install or to got the sale or whatever it was. 51:23.480 --> 51:28.480 So they will use their vast knowledge of human behavior, 51:28.480 --> 51:31.480 existing human behavior, existing user behavior, 51:31.480 --> 51:36.480 but also yes, geography and patterns of behavior in a certain area 51:36.480 --> 51:40.480 to target that ad where they're going to get the best ROI. 51:40.480 --> 51:44.480 So yeah, it's one of those things. 51:44.480 --> 51:47.480 I mean, it's sinister as a word for it. 51:47.480 --> 51:53.480 Again, sinister implies I think a motivated person behind this 51:53.480 --> 51:55.480 who is doing all of this. 51:55.480 --> 51:58.480 But in reality, it's a bunch of dumb systems that know nothing 51:58.480 --> 52:01.480 being strapped together. 52:01.480 --> 52:05.480 And it's actually, like I say, you peek into one of these systems. 52:05.480 --> 52:06.480 They don't know who you are. 52:06.480 --> 52:07.480 They don't care. 52:07.480 --> 52:10.480 They just know your, this UUID that's associated with your device, 52:10.480 --> 52:12.480 not with you. 52:12.480 --> 52:13.480 Sorry to interrupt. 52:13.480 --> 52:15.480 Sorry to interrupt, man. 52:15.480 --> 52:18.480 But I would love to talk to you about this properly, 52:18.480 --> 52:21.480 when I'm not terribly drunk and on a shitty morgue 52:21.480 --> 52:25.480 or connection in the wind. 52:25.480 --> 52:27.480 So if just like at me somewhere or send me an email or something, 52:27.480 --> 52:29.480 because I really want to talk to you in depth about this. 52:29.480 --> 52:32.480 If you have time to an inclination to do so, 52:32.480 --> 52:34.480 but I really would love to talk to you more about this. 52:34.480 --> 52:38.480 Bad news is I've decided tonight he's a 120 pounds an hour. 52:38.480 --> 52:40.480 It's sure. 52:40.480 --> 52:46.480 Well, I do have those little dollars, you know. 52:46.480 --> 52:49.480 I mean, like I say, I'm a technical writer, 52:49.480 --> 52:52.480 and my job is really very perfunctory. 52:52.480 --> 52:55.480 My job is basically to look at APIs and tell you how they work. 52:55.480 --> 52:58.480 But we did, you've tried this to explain technology. 52:58.480 --> 53:00.480 Your job is basically the same as mine. 53:00.480 --> 53:02.480 But I talk and you write. 53:02.480 --> 53:03.480 It's very similar. 53:03.480 --> 53:04.480 Yeah. 53:04.480 --> 53:06.480 It's just that I don't, I don't write about these, 53:06.480 --> 53:07.480 sort of, you know, 53:07.480 --> 53:10.480 I have a very limited purview of what I write about. 53:10.480 --> 53:14.480 But we did do about three weeks of onboarding where we got this all explained to us. 53:14.480 --> 53:18.480 And this industry is constantly evolving and my company is one of the ones at the forefront of it. 53:18.480 --> 53:20.480 So, you know, they, they all, 53:20.480 --> 53:22.480 That's why I want to talk to you. 53:22.480 --> 53:23.480 To me. 53:23.480 --> 53:25.480 That's why I want to talk to you. 53:25.480 --> 53:28.480 To be totally fair, fair, sport. 53:28.480 --> 53:32.480 I've asked you pretty much only marketing questions in your technical writer, 53:32.480 --> 53:34.480 and there's not a lot of overlap there, 53:34.480 --> 53:37.480 but really you've done a hero's job of it. 53:37.480 --> 53:38.480 Yeah. 53:38.480 --> 53:40.480 I mean, the great advantages. 53:40.480 --> 53:42.480 We work with marketers specifically, 53:42.480 --> 53:46.480 and they are the ones who come to us to ask us to implement new features to, 53:46.480 --> 53:50.480 you know, handle these new upcoming features that they, 53:50.480 --> 53:51.480 they really want to get in with. 53:51.480 --> 53:57.480 But the best, the best people to talk to about this stuff would be the actual advertising agencies. 53:57.480 --> 53:58.480 You know, it would be, 53:58.480 --> 54:01.480 people that tell us about their own companies. 54:01.480 --> 54:05.480 Our parent company is one call, I think it's an Apple oven or something. 54:05.480 --> 54:11.480 And they are one of the market leaders in the actual tech behind advertising. 54:11.480 --> 54:15.480 Like they're really, like, they're real big on this. 54:15.480 --> 54:20.480 And it is worth looking into these different ad agencies and seeing how they do what they do. 54:20.480 --> 54:25.480 Because they'd be good at explaining, at least in a sort of obfuscated way, 54:25.480 --> 54:28.480 how they get your ads in front of people. 54:28.480 --> 54:31.480 And it's fascinating. 54:31.480 --> 54:34.480 So it really is a fascinating subject. 54:34.480 --> 54:38.480 Like I say, I personally, if I were given the choice of working in mobile ad tech, 54:38.480 --> 54:40.480 it wouldn't have been my choice. 54:40.480 --> 54:43.480 But where I work is a very good company in terms of, 54:43.480 --> 54:46.480 you can point, you're being employed there. They're very nice. 54:46.480 --> 54:51.480 They're very, they were willing to take me on as a, as a writer when I had no previous experience with it. 54:51.480 --> 54:52.480 So can't complain. 54:52.480 --> 54:53.480 You have to go. 54:53.480 --> 54:54.480 The office, so can you do it remote? 54:54.480 --> 54:55.480 I am fully remote. 54:55.480 --> 54:57.480 I do go into the office sometimes. 54:57.480 --> 55:01.480 But now I live, I live, I'm like 45 minutes away. 55:01.480 --> 55:03.480 So I don't bother much the time. 55:03.480 --> 55:08.480 Can I, can I rotate the gem to see a different facet? 55:08.480 --> 55:10.480 I don't want to actually transition. 55:10.480 --> 55:14.480 Sorry, I'm talking like a podcaster. What kinds of advertising? 55:14.480 --> 55:18.480 Because we haven't discussed, you know, direct payment of a podcast. 55:18.480 --> 55:23.480 What other kinds of advertising are all of us willing to put up with? 55:23.480 --> 55:30.480 If it's not this directed advertising that comes at you based on where you're standing when you download the podcast. 55:30.480 --> 55:35.480 What else are you like just as an example, the live read, 55:35.480 --> 55:38.480 or that's the only example I can think of. 55:38.480 --> 55:41.480 I should not sit or I'm one good example. 55:41.480 --> 55:45.480 This actually for me is there's a really good podcast called maintainable. 55:45.480 --> 55:55.480 And maintainable is produced by a company and the only advertising they do is for themselves. 55:55.480 --> 55:58.480 So basically they use it as a vehicle to advertise themselves. 55:58.480 --> 56:00.480 And I mean, I will never use their services. 56:00.480 --> 56:05.480 They, they work as a specifically Ruby on Rails consultancy firm, 56:05.480 --> 56:09.480 which is not a software product I use or or something I would have need. 56:09.480 --> 56:14.480 But I appreciate that advertising firm for Ruby on Rails consultancy. 56:14.480 --> 56:15.480 Well, sure. Yeah. 56:15.480 --> 56:19.480 Well, another example of that is thinking elixir, 56:19.480 --> 56:24.480 which is a very, very specific podcast about elixir, 56:24.480 --> 56:28.480 the programming language, which is a cart remember what it's derived from. 56:28.480 --> 56:29.480 I'm sure someone will tell me right now. 56:29.480 --> 56:31.480 And that's sponsored by, 56:31.480 --> 56:35.480 oh, there are some big company in the elixir world anyway. 56:35.480 --> 56:38.480 And that's their whole thing is to just advertise themselves. 56:38.480 --> 56:43.480 And they pay an editor and all rest of it to produce a professional sounding podcast. 56:43.480 --> 56:45.480 That's that's one route to go down. 56:45.480 --> 56:48.480 And you know, it's something I've explored as well. 56:48.480 --> 56:52.480 And people, you know, I've had meetings with people and got close and done pilots. 56:52.480 --> 56:58.480 And and well, for a while kind of did that for a living for 18 months in a way. 56:58.480 --> 57:04.480 So can I ask other than then Joe and Spore of the other people in the room who were listening. 57:04.480 --> 57:10.480 Would you listen to a podcast like that that just puts on basically, 57:10.480 --> 57:13.480 I mean, it sounds like propaganda to me. 57:13.480 --> 57:17.480 It sounds like self hosted self circling propaganda. 57:17.480 --> 57:19.480 Anybody else in the room, what do you think? 57:19.480 --> 57:26.480 Well, I know that we have upwards of a thousand people listening to Distrohopper Digest. 57:26.480 --> 57:33.480 So I really don't see how we couldn't have a niche podcast for the people that wanted to listen to a niche podcast. 57:33.480 --> 57:35.480 Yeah, but I'm not asking about niche podcast. 57:35.480 --> 57:42.480 I'm asking like your your bread and butter stuff or even finish your niche podcast. 57:42.480 --> 57:45.480 The guy making it says, hey, I can't afford to do this anymore. 57:45.480 --> 57:49.480 If I don't start getting some money coming in, what are you willing to put up with? 57:49.480 --> 57:55.480 What would you prefer to have presented to you as his or her monetization? 57:55.480 --> 57:58.480 Plan. 57:58.480 --> 58:01.480 My first preference is donations. 58:01.480 --> 58:06.480 If we do go to ads, we want it to be ads that we support that we use. 58:06.480 --> 58:11.480 Not something that just happens beyond the topic. 58:11.480 --> 58:14.480 But it's really not my friend. 58:14.480 --> 58:17.480 Yeah, I'm really on the fringe of this. 58:17.480 --> 58:22.480 I've taken heat for promoting my podcast as being ad free. 58:22.480 --> 58:27.480 Indeed, we've clashed about it and I've knocked you pretty much everywhere I can think of because of it. 58:27.480 --> 58:35.480 Because you have publicly said, you've probably talked about advertising as being like a really negative thing. 58:35.480 --> 58:37.480 And you know, you're entitled to a opinion. 58:37.480 --> 58:40.480 No, I'm not talking about talking about you from my. 58:40.480 --> 58:43.480 I am not my current advertising as a negative thing. 58:43.480 --> 58:49.480 I'm referring to most of my listeners seeing it as a negative thing and me not needing advertising money. 58:49.480 --> 58:52.480 So it's a promotional thing. 58:52.480 --> 58:59.480 If you want to reach people that don't want to hear advertising in a podcast, you have to promote that you don't have advertising in your podcast. 58:59.480 --> 59:00.480 I guess so. 59:00.480 --> 59:03.480 But you know, if you just want to do something as a hobby, then good luck. 59:03.480 --> 59:06.480 But you know, I did this for a living man. 59:06.480 --> 59:08.480 So I'm not going to do down for what you do. 59:08.480 --> 59:12.480 And I don't think you should be putting down me down for what I do. 59:12.480 --> 59:14.480 Yeah, for Joe. 59:14.480 --> 59:19.480 And I'm touching. I am loyal who's not here at the moment. 59:19.480 --> 59:21.480 We do a podcast together. We don't take ads. 59:21.480 --> 59:27.480 We never want to take ads. If it gets to the point where that if we need to take advertisements or to collect money, 59:27.480 --> 59:34.480 we kind of decided as a group that we don't want to continue the podcast at that point. 59:34.480 --> 59:42.480 So I mean, thank God for free software podcasting is is monetarily cheap enough that we've been able to continue doing this. 59:42.480 --> 59:44.480 I mean, it's hard and wild. 59:44.480 --> 59:46.480 Do it and allow me to tag along. 59:46.480 --> 59:48.480 Hi, Taj. Have a new year. 59:48.480 --> 59:49.480 Happy new year. 59:49.480 --> 59:56.480 Yeah, totally. Like if you just want to do it as a hobby, then yeah, thanks to free and open software and various other services. 59:56.480 --> 01:00:02.480 You can do it pretty much completely for free at this point and not even need any donations. 01:00:02.480 --> 01:00:04.480 Maybe like a domain. 01:00:04.480 --> 01:00:10.480 If you want to splash out 10 bucks a year or 20 bucks for one of those fancy domains. 01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:15.480 And otherwise, yeah, it can be completely free. But that's just not what I went into this thinking. 01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:20.480 I went into this thinking that I want to make podcasts about Linux and open source, not shit. 01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:23.480 Like they were when I came into this nearly 10 years ago. 01:00:23.480 --> 01:00:26.480 And I want to try and raise the quality. 01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:30.480 And I want to make people actually do good shows. 01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:33.480 And the only way I can do that is by doing that myself. 01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:38.480 And so I spent a long time getting good at making shows about Linux. 01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:44.480 And the only way I can do that is by getting paid to do it because I'm not just going to do it totally for free. 01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:50.480 And so I made it my job and now it is my job and when some people come along and say, well, 01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:58.480 Well, when people come into my social channels like my telegram group and start advertising their podcast as being we've got no adverse. 01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:02.480 So we're better or we're great because we've got no adverse like 01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:08.480 I'm not ever saying we're better because we have no adverse. 01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:10.480 I'm just saying we have no adverse. 01:01:10.480 --> 01:01:13.480 You have an attitude about this that I don't have. 01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:18.480 And I don't understand why you're upset with me for promoting my product the way it is. 01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:23.480 This debate sounds way older than the however many of us sitting down tonight. 01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:24.480 It is way older. 01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:27.480 And I very nearly left when I realized it was here. 01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:32.480 And then he started talking about it in the chat and and riled me up a little bit. 01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:36.480 And I'm really trying not to to get angry and leave. 01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:38.480 But I think I might have to because I just. 01:01:38.480 --> 01:01:40.480 Well, no, please don't agree with this. 01:01:40.480 --> 01:01:43.480 Well, you don't have to leave because you're doing a disagree with somebody. 01:01:43.480 --> 01:01:44.480 That's what's wrong with the world today. 01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:48.480 Just learn to communicate with this. 01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:50.480 Let's communicate with people. 01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:53.480 Like it is literally my job is not about communicating with people. 01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:57.480 Sometimes you just have to accept that some people can't be communicated with man. 01:01:57.480 --> 01:01:59.480 And you have to just block them. 01:01:59.480 --> 01:02:02.480 And you know, once you get to a certain. 01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:03.480 I don't want to chat. 01:02:03.480 --> 01:02:07.480 I'm saying there's like at least 10, 12 other people in the room right now. 01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:10.480 And you're saying you need to think things that we're interested in. 01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:13.480 And so is Zavalia saying interesting things. 01:02:13.480 --> 01:02:14.480 So I don't know. 01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:16.480 I guess I'm just asking you for my own. 01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:21.480 I've been a faction just stick around and just we're having a conversation. 01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:23.480 I've got questions for you. 01:02:23.480 --> 01:02:26.480 You've said stuff that's that's prompted questions in my head. 01:02:26.480 --> 01:02:29.480 Having nothing to do with Zavalia. 01:02:29.480 --> 01:02:30.480 Can we put a zival moment? 01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:31.480 Zavalia. 01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:32.480 What does Zavalia? 01:02:32.480 --> 01:02:34.480 I say don't problem with Joe. 01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:35.480 Joe has a problem with me. 01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:36.480 I don't understand it. 01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:37.480 I'm trying to decide. 01:02:37.480 --> 01:02:38.480 Can you put aside? 01:02:38.480 --> 01:02:39.480 Can you put aside? 01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:40.480 I can't do it. 01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:41.480 I can do it. 01:02:41.480 --> 01:02:41.480 I can do it. 01:02:41.480 --> 01:02:41.480 I can do it. 01:02:41.480 --> 01:02:42.480 And all together. 01:02:42.480 --> 01:02:42.480 Yeah. 01:02:42.480 --> 01:02:45.480 Just if he shuts up and just stops talking. 01:02:45.480 --> 01:02:46.480 And then we can put it aside. 01:02:46.480 --> 01:02:47.480 No problem. 01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:48.480 And I'll keep talking to the rest of you. 01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:49.480 No problem. 01:02:49.480 --> 01:02:50.480 Yeah. 01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:52.480 But if he's going to keep buttoning in, I'm going to leave. 01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:53.480 It's as simple as that. 01:02:53.480 --> 01:02:54.480 I've no time for the fellow. 01:02:54.480 --> 01:02:56.480 So it's a great dream drama. 01:02:56.480 --> 01:02:57.480 It's an open room. 01:02:57.480 --> 01:03:00.480 But you're open to join and you're open to leave. 01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:02.480 And if you keep talking, I'm going to leave. 01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:03.480 It's as simple as that. 01:03:03.480 --> 01:03:05.480 You're all to open to chase somebody out of the room. 01:03:05.480 --> 01:03:06.480 And if you want to be obnoxious. 01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:08.480 I did that to somebody one time. 01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:10.480 And I still haven't been given myself. 01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:12.480 And he probably hasn't forgiven me for it. 01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:14.480 I don't want to be obnoxious. 01:03:14.480 --> 01:03:17.480 And you're being hurt as being obnoxious. 01:03:17.480 --> 01:03:19.480 And I'm not only like him. 01:03:19.480 --> 01:03:21.480 Only just just chill out when he's part of it. 01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:22.480 Oh, yeah. 01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:23.480 I'm in the lead after another day. 01:03:23.480 --> 01:03:24.480 That's all I'm asking. 01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:25.480 Okay. 01:03:25.480 --> 01:03:26.480 I can leave it. 01:03:26.480 --> 01:03:27.480 Sorry. 01:03:27.480 --> 01:03:28.480 I was a way while listening to a bit. 01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:31.480 And I see there's a heat struggling or some sort of habit. 01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:32.480 Can I be the. 01:03:32.480 --> 01:03:34.480 Well, I don't know the piece. 01:03:34.480 --> 01:03:39.480 But I want to ask a question to Joe actually going with what he's saying. 01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:46.480 Just now about podcasting and how he decided that he was going to be a bit different. 01:03:46.480 --> 01:03:48.480 Ten years ago, they weren't particularly good or whatever. 01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:53.480 So it sounds like Joe is getting some making some money doing podcasting. 01:03:53.480 --> 01:03:55.480 It's what I do for a living. 01:03:55.480 --> 01:03:56.480 Yes. 01:03:56.480 --> 01:03:57.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:03:57.480 --> 01:04:00.480 And I think I talked to you briefly before now. 01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:02.480 You want the podcast people. 01:04:02.480 --> 01:04:04.480 But it might might be not. 01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:05.480 I'll count with you. 01:04:05.480 --> 01:04:06.480 I'm not sure. 01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:11.480 You're going up on there anyway. 01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:13.480 It on HBO at some stage. 01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:15.480 And this might actually be a good time. 01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:18.480 So I can word this right. 01:04:18.480 --> 01:04:22.480 Basically, is it as open source a pastime hobby? 01:04:22.480 --> 01:04:23.480 Or is it a job? 01:04:23.480 --> 01:04:27.480 And what I mean is like, so I know that a lot of open source stuff is voluntary. 01:04:27.480 --> 01:04:28.480 It's hobbyist. 01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:30.480 It's it's done for fun. 01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:33.480 But then some things are done as a pastime. 01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:36.480 And then the question can be, are you a professional model? 01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:40.480 So in your case, are you a professional podcast or would you say now? 01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:45.480 If you see my question when I'm trying to ask, I don't know if it makes sense. 01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:48.480 I think I can understand. 01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:50.480 Because you're interested. 01:04:50.480 --> 01:04:52.480 So just the hobby. 01:04:52.480 --> 01:04:53.480 Yes. 01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:54.480 Okay. 01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:58.480 So to be clear, my only source of income is making podcasts. 01:04:58.480 --> 01:04:59.480 Yeah. 01:04:59.480 --> 01:05:01.480 They are almost all about that. 01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:02.480 Hold on. 01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:06.480 Seb, you really can't key up when anybody else is keyed up. 01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:07.480 Instantly causes. 01:05:07.480 --> 01:05:11.480 Yeah. 01:05:11.480 --> 01:05:12.480 Yeah. 01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:15.480 It makes Joe and anybody else unintelligible. 01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:16.480 Sorry, Joe. 01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:18.480 No, the alcohol makes me unintelligible. 01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:19.480 No. 01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:21.480 It makes you looser in the lips that I love it. 01:05:21.480 --> 01:05:23.480 It's wiggling my hips. 01:05:23.480 --> 01:05:27.480 It makes me almost say a word that gets me fired from certain jobs. 01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:28.480 So anyway. 01:05:28.480 --> 01:05:29.480 So right. 01:05:29.480 --> 01:05:30.480 Yes. 01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:33.480 Why do to be clear to everyone who doesn't know who I am? 01:05:33.480 --> 01:05:36.480 What I do for a living is make podcasts about Linux. 01:05:36.480 --> 01:05:40.480 So basically the joke is I talked to my friends about Linux for a living. 01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:45.480 So basically what everyone has been doing here tonight and for the last like 50 something 01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:48.480 hours I think or whatever long this has been going in it. 01:05:48.480 --> 01:05:51.480 Anyway, that's the joke is that's what I do for a living. 01:05:51.480 --> 01:05:56.480 But in reality, what I do is I craft those that are entertaining and amusing and informative 01:05:56.480 --> 01:06:02.480 and thought-provoking and not too long, not too short and whatever. 01:06:02.480 --> 01:06:06.480 And I also have to sell a bunch of ads and I have to deal with the finances of that. 01:06:06.480 --> 01:06:11.480 And I have to be a terrible, terrible, this admin in a sense as well. 01:06:11.480 --> 01:06:15.480 So yeah, that's what I do for a living is make shows about Linux. 01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:23.480 And the question about this idea of open source being a hobbyist and ever versus a professional and ever. 01:06:23.480 --> 01:06:27.480 There are two types of people who contribute to open source. 01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:31.480 There are people who do it in their spare time and there are people who do it for a living. 01:06:31.480 --> 01:06:35.480 And that vendor diagram is not two separate circles. 01:06:35.480 --> 01:06:41.480 There are often people who contribute to open source projects for a company like Red Hat, 01:06:41.480 --> 01:06:46.480 let's say, or Chronicle, or Sousa, whoever owns them this week. 01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:48.480 Yep, I've been around a while. 01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:50.480 It's not even circles, dude. 01:06:50.480 --> 01:06:53.480 They overlap in weird non-uclidean ways. 01:06:53.480 --> 01:06:57.480 Well, yeah, I was simplifying, obviously. 01:06:57.480 --> 01:07:07.480 What I'm saying is this, that to be an open source person does not necessarily mean that you are paid all the time or 01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:09.480 a volunteer all the time. 01:07:09.480 --> 01:07:15.480 There's overlap, but there's a myth that open source software is all volunteers. 01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:20.480 And the reality of that is so far from that. 01:07:20.480 --> 01:07:25.480 Most people who work on open source software get paid to do so. 01:07:25.480 --> 01:07:33.480 And, you know, you could argue that, well, most open source software only has one person who 01:07:33.480 --> 01:07:38.480 develops it and maintains it on some GitHub or GitHub or whatever repository. 01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:43.480 But I'm talking about the open source software that millions of people actually use. 01:07:43.480 --> 01:07:45.480 Put your hands away. 01:07:45.480 --> 01:07:50.480 Even if it is just that one person, that one person still has to sustain themselves 01:07:50.480 --> 01:07:53.480 day to day, week to week, year to year. 01:07:53.480 --> 01:07:56.480 Yeah, and so the best way to do that is to get a company to pay. 01:07:56.480 --> 01:08:00.480 Well, to get your thing popular enough that a company will pay you to work on it. 01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:08.480 Because they are depending on it and they realise that it's not a good idea to depend on something that someone's doing in their evenings and weekends. 01:08:08.480 --> 01:08:10.480 But that's like a whole other debate. 01:08:10.480 --> 01:08:15.480 But the best way of doing it or that that's the only way, 01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:22.480 because the best I can see that is being like a incendiary word in the rest of a completely agreeable sense. 01:08:22.480 --> 01:08:26.480 It's a complicated issue. 01:08:26.480 --> 01:08:33.480 The funding of open source is not something we can tackle in 50 hours, 01:08:33.480 --> 01:08:36.480 500 hours of discussion on mumble. 01:08:36.480 --> 01:08:38.480 We can't even solve this project, I'll go home. 01:08:38.480 --> 01:08:39.480 No. 01:08:39.480 --> 01:08:42.480 We can have a hundred new year. 01:08:42.480 --> 01:08:49.480 HVR things and still not come up with a solution to the problem of funding or software. 01:08:49.480 --> 01:08:53.480 But all I'm saying is this, my business model is pretty straightforward, right? 01:08:53.480 --> 01:08:57.480 I make great shows that a bunch of people listen to, 01:08:57.480 --> 01:09:02.480 and then I sell as many ads as I can that are based on the content 01:09:02.480 --> 01:09:08.480 and offer people the opportunity to listen to those shows without any adverts 01:09:08.480 --> 01:09:11.480 if they're willing to pay a certain number of dollars per month. 01:09:11.480 --> 01:09:14.480 It's a relatively straightforward business model. 01:09:14.480 --> 01:09:16.480 It doesn't involve any tracking as such. 01:09:16.480 --> 01:09:19.480 It just involves a tracking of how many people are downloading. 01:09:19.480 --> 01:09:21.480 How many thousand people listen to that episode? 01:09:21.480 --> 01:09:23.480 That's all I'm really interested in. 01:09:23.480 --> 01:09:25.480 To some extent, what country are you in, 01:09:25.480 --> 01:09:28.480 but that's as granular as it gets? 01:09:28.480 --> 01:09:30.480 What's the demographics? 01:09:30.480 --> 01:09:36.480 Well, I don't need tracking software to tell me that it's 20 to 50-year-old white men 01:09:36.480 --> 01:09:37.480 who listen to my shows. 01:09:37.480 --> 01:09:40.480 I just have to go to any event that I organise, 01:09:40.480 --> 01:09:43.480 and that fucking tells me who's listening to my shows. 01:09:43.480 --> 01:09:46.480 So, okay, in that case, my question is, 01:09:46.480 --> 01:09:48.480 you would say you are, well, two questions a day. 01:09:48.480 --> 01:09:51.480 One is, you would say you are professional podcast, yes. 01:09:51.480 --> 01:09:52.480 But what do you do? 01:09:52.480 --> 01:09:54.480 So, that makes you, you're not into the hobbyist. 01:09:54.480 --> 01:09:56.480 That's the first question, yes. 01:09:56.480 --> 01:09:58.480 Well, I make a living out of it. 01:09:58.480 --> 01:10:00.480 Whether that makes me professional or not, 01:10:00.480 --> 01:10:02.480 is a matter of humor, but yes, 01:10:02.480 --> 01:10:06.480 I am a professional podcast right now at this time. 01:10:06.480 --> 01:10:08.480 On the first of January, 2023, 01:10:08.480 --> 01:10:12.480 that is currently my profession is making podcasts, yes. 01:10:12.480 --> 01:10:13.480 Yes, yes. 01:10:13.480 --> 01:10:15.480 That's going to take that as an answer. 01:10:15.480 --> 01:10:18.480 And also, the whole thing that does the debate, 01:10:18.480 --> 01:10:22.480 and that's, I kind of want to talk about that in this public speaking, 01:10:22.480 --> 01:10:24.480 and speak to them, thinking of doing a march, 01:10:24.480 --> 01:10:26.480 and probably speaking group for seven minutes, 01:10:26.480 --> 01:10:28.480 but there are some people, you know, 01:10:28.480 --> 01:10:31.480 the steam people, so I can do it in my open source. 01:10:31.480 --> 01:10:34.480 They just basically have so much of their free time, 01:10:34.480 --> 01:10:36.480 the hobbyists, that's their big, 01:10:36.480 --> 01:10:38.480 that's what they do in this fair time, 01:10:38.480 --> 01:10:40.480 not even getting paid for it. 01:10:40.480 --> 01:10:43.480 I think what people overlook is that people think, 01:10:43.480 --> 01:10:45.480 hey, you're not doing anything that good, 01:10:45.480 --> 01:10:47.480 and that's what you get in paid, 01:10:47.480 --> 01:10:48.480 but that's like, hang on a minute, 01:10:48.480 --> 01:10:51.480 there's loads of open source contributions 01:10:51.480 --> 01:10:54.480 that are absolutely amazing that people do from programming, 01:10:54.480 --> 01:10:57.480 to caught testing, to translation, 01:10:57.480 --> 01:10:59.480 to documentation, to quality shorts, 01:10:59.480 --> 01:11:00.480 and they're not getting paid, 01:11:00.480 --> 01:11:02.480 but I think there's some really amazing things, 01:11:02.480 --> 01:11:04.480 some great, really poor, great projects, 01:11:04.480 --> 01:11:06.480 come to the community now, 01:11:06.480 --> 01:11:08.480 have an example, not just that, 01:11:08.480 --> 01:11:11.480 and I think that's the point I want to try and make, 01:11:11.480 --> 01:11:14.480 somewhere that people can do some really amazing things, 01:11:14.480 --> 01:11:16.480 an open source is one way to do it, 01:11:16.480 --> 01:11:19.480 because it allows you to do whatever you want pretty much, 01:11:19.480 --> 01:11:21.480 and you don't have to be paid, 01:11:21.480 --> 01:11:24.480 but there are people getting paid as well doing things, 01:11:24.480 --> 01:11:26.480 it's been a bit of both. 01:11:26.480 --> 01:11:29.480 I just like to put in here, 01:11:29.480 --> 01:11:33.480 because I'm an open source maintainer in my spare time. 01:11:33.480 --> 01:11:37.480 The software is the smallest parts, 01:11:37.480 --> 01:11:40.480 of many open source projects, 01:11:40.480 --> 01:11:43.480 and actually the writing of the software 01:11:43.480 --> 01:11:46.480 often is what you spend the least amount of time doing, 01:11:46.480 --> 01:11:49.480 and you say, you know, you can do what you want with it. 01:11:49.480 --> 01:11:50.480 It's not really true, 01:11:50.480 --> 01:11:52.480 at the moment you start getting users, 01:11:52.480 --> 01:11:55.480 they start to dictate how, 01:11:55.480 --> 01:11:58.480 and not dictate in like a dictatorship sort of way, 01:11:58.480 --> 01:12:01.480 but they start to influence very heavily 01:12:01.480 --> 01:12:04.480 how you build the software going forward, 01:12:04.480 --> 01:12:07.480 and that can lead to you having to put a lot of time 01:12:07.480 --> 01:12:09.480 into things you never really wanted to. 01:12:09.480 --> 01:12:10.480 You have no interest in, 01:12:10.480 --> 01:12:13.480 you have to put a lot of time into research, 01:12:13.480 --> 01:12:15.480 and understanding, and, you know, 01:12:15.480 --> 01:12:16.480 conversation. 01:12:16.480 --> 01:12:17.480 So in that way, 01:12:17.480 --> 01:12:19.480 it's kind of similar to what Joe was saying, 01:12:19.480 --> 01:12:20.480 where it's like, 01:12:20.480 --> 01:12:23.480 a podcast is not just, you know, 01:12:23.480 --> 01:12:25.480 recording yourself talking. 01:12:25.480 --> 01:12:27.480 There's a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff, 01:12:27.480 --> 01:12:31.480 and that's actually where the money tends to go. 01:12:31.480 --> 01:12:34.480 So we've had, you know, we've had, 01:12:34.480 --> 01:12:35.480 we've been very lucky in the past. 01:12:35.480 --> 01:12:36.480 We've had some funding, 01:12:36.480 --> 01:12:38.480 and the vast majority of it seems to go on, 01:12:38.480 --> 01:12:40.480 just keeping the project managed. 01:12:40.480 --> 01:12:43.480 Very little of it actually goes on the code, 01:12:43.480 --> 01:12:44.480 to get written. 01:12:44.480 --> 01:12:46.480 It's the stuff around the code. 01:12:46.480 --> 01:12:48.480 It's the talking to people, 01:12:48.480 --> 01:12:49.480 it's the research, 01:12:49.480 --> 01:12:50.480 it's the planning, 01:12:50.480 --> 01:12:53.480 it's the sort of, 01:12:53.480 --> 01:12:55.480 continued sort of conversations with people, 01:12:55.480 --> 01:12:57.480 that's where it gets really, 01:12:57.480 --> 01:12:59.480 expensive and challenging. 01:12:59.480 --> 01:13:01.480 I think, you know, 01:13:01.480 --> 01:13:01.480 consoles. 01:13:01.480 --> 01:13:02.480 Yeah, I mean, 01:13:02.480 --> 01:13:04.480 I think marketing depends on the project, 01:13:04.480 --> 01:13:05.480 obviously, again, 01:13:05.480 --> 01:13:08.480 but I do think marketing is a barrier 01:13:08.480 --> 01:13:11.480 that a lot of projects will have 01:13:11.480 --> 01:13:13.480 proper struggle with, 01:13:13.480 --> 01:13:14.480 or they will be hard to do, 01:13:14.480 --> 01:13:16.480 but marketing is kind of, 01:13:16.480 --> 01:13:17.480 it's important, 01:13:17.480 --> 01:13:18.480 or you're not going to get the users, 01:13:18.480 --> 01:13:20.480 and then who's going to be using this stuff anyway. 01:13:20.480 --> 01:13:21.480 Yeah, 01:13:21.480 --> 01:13:24.480 marketing is an interesting, 01:13:24.480 --> 01:13:27.480 an interesting conundrum for, 01:13:27.480 --> 01:13:29.480 you know, open source projects, 01:13:29.480 --> 01:13:30.480 and particularly, 01:13:30.480 --> 01:13:31.480 I mean, 01:13:31.480 --> 01:13:33.480 we've had a particular problem recently, 01:13:33.480 --> 01:13:33.480 of course, 01:13:33.480 --> 01:13:35.480 this whole Twitter debacle went on, 01:13:35.480 --> 01:13:36.480 and people came over from Twitter, 01:13:36.480 --> 01:13:37.480 to master them. 01:13:37.480 --> 01:13:37.480 Now, 01:13:37.480 --> 01:13:38.480 master it on, 01:13:38.480 --> 01:13:40.480 occupies a similar space to us. 01:13:40.480 --> 01:13:41.480 We're all, 01:13:41.480 --> 01:13:42.480 we're both a federal, 01:13:42.480 --> 01:13:44.480 federal project. 01:13:44.480 --> 01:13:45.480 And so, 01:13:45.480 --> 01:13:47.480 we were really sort of excited 01:13:47.480 --> 01:13:51.480 that people would come over to, 01:13:51.480 --> 01:13:52.480 you know, 01:13:52.480 --> 01:13:53.480 to Funkwell, 01:13:53.480 --> 01:13:54.480 check it out. 01:13:54.480 --> 01:13:55.480 But of course, 01:13:55.480 --> 01:13:56.480 because the, 01:13:56.480 --> 01:13:57.480 the software was kind of in a, 01:13:57.480 --> 01:13:58.480 it's kind of in a, 01:13:58.480 --> 01:14:00.480 a state to the moment of in-betweenness, 01:14:00.480 --> 01:14:03.480 their first impression of it was, 01:14:03.480 --> 01:14:04.480 I don't understand, 01:14:04.480 --> 01:14:05.480 it's confusing, 01:14:05.480 --> 01:14:06.480 it's ugly, 01:14:06.480 --> 01:14:07.480 and all this stuff, 01:14:07.480 --> 01:14:08.480 and so we actually ended up getting 01:14:08.480 --> 01:14:10.480 bad press from people coming over, 01:14:10.480 --> 01:14:12.480 in light of what happened at Twitter, 01:14:12.480 --> 01:14:13.480 and that's, 01:14:13.480 --> 01:14:15.480 that's a really challenging to do, 01:14:15.480 --> 01:14:16.480 because, 01:14:16.480 --> 01:14:17.480 you know, 01:14:17.480 --> 01:14:19.480 we can't show them the results of all the work 01:14:19.480 --> 01:14:21.480 that we've done until it's finished, 01:14:21.480 --> 01:14:22.480 and that I think is actually a, 01:14:22.480 --> 01:14:24.480 a lot of open source projects, 01:14:24.480 --> 01:14:25.480 sort of hit, 01:14:25.480 --> 01:14:27.480 is that they get attention at the 01:14:27.480 --> 01:14:28.480 wrong time, 01:14:28.480 --> 01:14:29.480 and that can be just as bad as 01:14:29.480 --> 01:14:30.480 not getting attention at all. 01:14:30.480 --> 01:14:31.480 Maybe, 01:14:31.480 --> 01:14:32.480 I don't, 01:14:32.480 --> 01:14:34.480 I don't know if MasterDone 01:14:34.480 --> 01:14:36.480 was ready to take on those people, 01:14:36.480 --> 01:14:37.480 like the servers, 01:14:37.480 --> 01:14:38.480 but suddenly there's a massive 01:14:38.480 --> 01:14:39.480 in-look, 01:14:39.480 --> 01:14:40.480 as well as everyone's doing, 01:14:40.480 --> 01:14:41.480 but anything in tech people, 01:14:41.480 --> 01:14:42.480 where you're not, 01:14:42.480 --> 01:14:42.480 no, 01:14:42.480 --> 01:14:43.480 MasterDone, 01:14:43.480 --> 01:14:43.480 MasterDone. 01:14:43.480 --> 01:14:44.480 Well, 01:14:44.480 --> 01:14:44.480 yeah, 01:14:44.480 --> 01:14:45.480 and look at what's happening with 01:14:45.480 --> 01:14:46.480 Matrix, 01:14:46.480 --> 01:14:47.480 I don't know if you've read the blog post, 01:14:47.480 --> 01:14:48.480 at the, 01:14:48.480 --> 01:14:49.480 you know, 01:14:49.480 --> 01:14:50.480 I find it, 01:14:50.480 --> 01:14:51.480 and she'll die a trace 01:14:51.480 --> 01:14:53.480 that they're in right now, 01:14:53.480 --> 01:14:54.480 because, 01:14:54.480 --> 01:14:55.480 you know, 01:14:55.480 --> 01:14:56.480 they didn't, 01:14:56.480 --> 01:14:58.480 well, 01:14:58.480 --> 01:14:59.480 I don't know, 01:14:59.480 --> 01:15:00.480 I'm not going to pass 01:15:00.480 --> 01:15:01.480 judgment on it, 01:15:01.480 --> 01:15:03.480 but they are a victim 01:15:03.480 --> 01:15:05.480 of their own success, 01:15:05.480 --> 01:15:06.480 let's say. 01:15:06.480 --> 01:15:07.480 And also, 01:15:07.480 --> 01:15:08.480 of the issue, 01:15:08.480 --> 01:15:09.480 where people, 01:15:09.480 --> 01:15:10.480 companies will use 01:15:10.480 --> 01:15:12.480 staff and not pay for it, 01:15:12.480 --> 01:15:13.480 not contribute to it 01:15:13.480 --> 01:15:14.480 in any way, 01:15:14.480 --> 01:15:15.480 because it's free in open source, 01:15:15.480 --> 01:15:17.480 so therefore it's free as in there. 01:15:17.480 --> 01:15:18.480 Yeah, 01:15:18.480 --> 01:15:20.480 and I think that Matrix also suffered 01:15:20.480 --> 01:15:21.480 from this problem of, 01:15:21.480 --> 01:15:24.480 a lot of places use Matrix 01:15:24.480 --> 01:15:26.480 and use specifically element, 01:15:26.480 --> 01:15:27.480 as it is, 01:15:27.480 --> 01:15:29.480 others such as the German government 01:15:29.480 --> 01:15:31.480 have made their own clients 01:15:31.480 --> 01:15:33.480 and things like that. 01:15:33.480 --> 01:15:36.480 But what they haven't done, 01:15:36.480 --> 01:15:38.480 then is made things that are useful 01:15:38.480 --> 01:15:40.480 to the project as a whole, 01:15:40.480 --> 01:15:40.480 so while, 01:15:40.480 --> 01:15:41.480 of course, 01:15:41.480 --> 01:15:42.480 they are upstreaming, 01:15:42.480 --> 01:15:44.480 they're not upstreaming anything of use, 01:15:44.480 --> 01:15:46.480 because it's all just very specific stuff 01:15:46.480 --> 01:15:48.480 that only the German government would want. 01:15:48.480 --> 01:15:50.480 And that's part of the problem as well, 01:15:50.480 --> 01:15:51.480 because that creates, 01:15:51.480 --> 01:15:53.480 it sounds helpful, 01:15:53.480 --> 01:15:54.480 the German government's picking it up, 01:15:54.480 --> 01:15:55.480 they're going to, 01:15:55.480 --> 01:15:57.480 they're going to contribute code. 01:15:57.480 --> 01:15:58.480 And of course, 01:15:58.480 --> 01:15:59.480 they contribute, 01:15:59.480 --> 01:16:01.480 but they contribute some useful stuff, 01:16:01.480 --> 01:16:02.480 sometimes, 01:16:02.480 --> 01:16:04.480 and that actually creates a lot more administrative overhead 01:16:04.480 --> 01:16:05.480 for the upstream developers 01:16:05.480 --> 01:16:07.480 to sift through all of that, 01:16:07.480 --> 01:16:08.480 and make sure they're not including stuff 01:16:08.480 --> 01:16:10.480 that wouldn't be useful elsewhere. 01:16:10.480 --> 01:16:11.480 So it's a real, 01:16:11.480 --> 01:16:12.480 I mean, 01:16:12.480 --> 01:16:14.480 if the German government aren't paying 01:16:14.480 --> 01:16:16.480 or Matrix, 01:16:16.480 --> 01:16:18.480 that's a poor, 01:16:18.480 --> 01:16:19.480 frankly, 01:16:19.480 --> 01:16:20.480 it wouldn't surprise me. 01:16:20.480 --> 01:16:21.480 I've heard of Matrix, 01:16:21.480 --> 01:16:22.480 but I don't know if, 01:16:22.480 --> 01:16:23.480 but what I'm going to say is, 01:16:23.480 --> 01:16:24.480 or it could be like, 01:16:24.480 --> 01:16:25.480 hey, 01:16:25.480 --> 01:16:25.480 pick, 01:16:25.480 --> 01:16:26.480 so you're using minutes, 01:16:26.480 --> 01:16:27.480 make movies great, 01:16:27.480 --> 01:16:28.480 although it turns out, 01:16:28.480 --> 01:16:30.480 they've got doing commercial programming, 01:16:30.480 --> 01:16:31.480 that's another point. 01:16:31.480 --> 01:16:32.480 What I'm going to say, 01:16:32.480 --> 01:16:33.480 well, 01:16:33.480 --> 01:16:34.480 obviously, 01:16:34.480 --> 01:16:35.480 with the software license, 01:16:35.480 --> 01:16:37.480 if a company goes and goes, 01:16:37.480 --> 01:16:38.480 hey, 01:16:38.480 --> 01:16:38.480 look, 01:16:38.480 --> 01:16:39.480 it's DPL code, 01:16:39.480 --> 01:16:40.480 we'll just put that on TV, 01:16:40.480 --> 01:16:41.480 software, 01:16:41.480 --> 01:16:42.480 so I'm picking that sound, 01:16:42.480 --> 01:16:43.480 that about, 01:16:43.480 --> 01:16:43.480 then, 01:16:43.480 --> 01:16:44.480 well, 01:16:44.480 --> 01:16:45.480 says things like, 01:16:45.480 --> 01:16:47.480 the software feed and controversy, 01:16:47.480 --> 01:16:48.480 and the FFF, 01:16:48.480 --> 01:16:49.480 obviously, 01:16:49.480 --> 01:16:50.480 and FFFE, 01:16:50.480 --> 01:16:51.480 as well, 01:16:51.480 --> 01:16:52.480 and the UK does, 01:16:52.480 --> 01:16:54.480 or is it open UK that, 01:16:54.480 --> 01:16:55.480 one of those organizations, 01:16:55.480 --> 01:16:56.480 you know, 01:16:56.480 --> 01:16:57.480 they'll go to court over it, 01:16:57.480 --> 01:16:58.480 potentially, 01:16:58.480 --> 01:16:59.480 like, 01:16:59.480 --> 01:17:00.480 you're both in the UK, 01:17:00.480 --> 01:17:01.480 no, 01:17:01.480 --> 01:17:02.480 you need to put in this your code, 01:17:02.480 --> 01:17:03.480 you need to do stuff, 01:17:03.480 --> 01:17:04.480 you know, 01:17:04.480 --> 01:17:04.480 I mean, 01:17:04.480 --> 01:17:05.480 I'm sure. 01:17:05.480 --> 01:17:06.480 Yeah, 01:17:06.480 --> 01:17:07.480 it's a real shame, 01:17:07.480 --> 01:17:08.480 because, 01:17:08.480 --> 01:17:09.480 on a sort of personal, 01:17:09.480 --> 01:17:10.480 ethics level, 01:17:10.480 --> 01:17:12.480 I really like the idea 01:17:12.480 --> 01:17:14.480 of much more permissive licenses, 01:17:14.480 --> 01:17:15.480 such as, 01:17:15.480 --> 01:17:17.480 the MIT license, 01:17:17.480 --> 01:17:19.480 and the two clause BSD license, 01:17:19.480 --> 01:17:20.480 like those to me, 01:17:20.480 --> 01:17:23.480 are much cleaner licenses than the GPS, 01:17:23.480 --> 01:17:24.480 but unfortunately, 01:17:24.480 --> 01:17:25.480 because of the, 01:17:25.480 --> 01:17:26.480 the problem that, 01:17:26.480 --> 01:17:27.480 Joe's highlighted, 01:17:27.480 --> 01:17:29.480 if you use those licenses, 01:17:29.480 --> 01:17:31.480 you run the risk of people taking your work, 01:17:31.480 --> 01:17:33.480 and just not contributing back. 01:17:33.480 --> 01:17:35.480 Sometimes you get lucky, 01:17:35.480 --> 01:17:35.480 if, 01:17:35.480 --> 01:17:36.480 in the example, 01:17:36.480 --> 01:17:37.480 I would give there is, 01:17:37.480 --> 01:17:40.480 Netflix heavily uses free BSD for their caching, 01:17:40.480 --> 01:17:44.480 and they are massive contributors back to the free BSD, 01:17:44.480 --> 01:17:45.480 which is wonderful. 01:17:45.480 --> 01:17:46.480 And in their case, 01:17:46.480 --> 01:17:47.480 it makes financial sense, 01:17:47.480 --> 01:17:48.480 because, 01:17:48.480 --> 01:17:48.480 you know, 01:17:48.480 --> 01:17:49.480 they upstream it, 01:17:49.480 --> 01:17:50.480 and it's up to the free BSD, 01:17:50.480 --> 01:17:52.480 maintainers to maintain it from there, 01:17:52.480 --> 01:17:53.480 but it's a positive, 01:17:53.480 --> 01:17:54.480 net positive. 01:17:54.480 --> 01:17:55.480 They do a lot of improvements. 01:17:55.480 --> 01:17:57.480 But the vast majority of things, 01:17:57.480 --> 01:17:58.480 if you, 01:17:58.480 --> 01:18:01.480 if you do make them with a permissive license, 01:18:01.480 --> 01:18:04.480 companies will take advantage of that. 01:18:04.480 --> 01:18:07.480 And that's why viral licensing, 01:18:07.480 --> 01:18:09.480 such as GPL exists, 01:18:09.480 --> 01:18:09.480 you know, 01:18:09.480 --> 01:18:12.480 and it's a real question you have to ask yourself, 01:18:12.480 --> 01:18:13.480 when you're, 01:18:13.480 --> 01:18:15.480 when you're starting a software project is, 01:18:15.480 --> 01:18:16.480 do I, 01:18:16.480 --> 01:18:20.480 do I want to make this under the license that I think is, 01:18:20.480 --> 01:18:21.480 you know, 01:18:21.480 --> 01:18:22.480 my personal favor, 01:18:22.480 --> 01:18:24.480 which in my cases MIT, 01:18:24.480 --> 01:18:26.480 or do I need to protect myself from, 01:18:26.480 --> 01:18:27.480 you know, 01:18:27.480 --> 01:18:28.480 future fevery. 01:18:28.480 --> 01:18:29.480 And, 01:18:29.480 --> 01:18:30.480 you know, 01:18:30.480 --> 01:18:32.480 these kinds of decisions are difficult, 01:18:32.480 --> 01:18:34.480 and they have long lasting ramifications, 01:18:34.480 --> 01:18:36.480 for how your software goes. 01:18:36.480 --> 01:18:36.480 So, 01:18:36.480 --> 01:18:38.480 there's no easy answer to any of this. 01:18:38.480 --> 01:18:39.480 I actually had a question though, 01:18:39.480 --> 01:18:40.480 for Joe. 01:18:40.480 --> 01:18:42.480 When you said, you know, 01:18:42.480 --> 01:18:43.480 you sell ads. 01:18:43.480 --> 01:18:44.480 I've not actually, 01:18:44.480 --> 01:18:45.480 I don't listen to many podcasts, 01:18:45.480 --> 01:18:46.480 I've not come across it, 01:18:46.480 --> 01:18:49.480 but is the format of that that you read ads, 01:18:49.480 --> 01:18:51.480 as part of the show? 01:18:51.480 --> 01:18:52.480 Yes. 01:18:52.480 --> 01:18:56.480 So it's baked in host red mid rolls, 01:18:56.480 --> 01:18:58.480 in your jargon. 01:18:58.480 --> 01:18:59.480 Yeah. 01:18:59.480 --> 01:19:01.480 So like I sell, 01:19:01.480 --> 01:19:03.480 ideally a bunch of ads, 01:19:03.480 --> 01:19:05.480 but sometimes just single ones to companies. 01:19:05.480 --> 01:19:06.480 And then, 01:19:06.480 --> 01:19:07.480 yeah, 01:19:07.480 --> 01:19:08.480 we agree a 60 second script, 01:19:08.480 --> 01:19:10.480 and then I do my advert, 01:19:10.480 --> 01:19:11.480 okay, 01:19:11.480 --> 01:19:12.480 this episode is sponsored. 01:19:12.480 --> 01:19:12.480 I, 01:19:12.480 --> 01:19:13.480 this company, 01:19:13.480 --> 01:19:14.480 go to this company, 01:19:14.480 --> 01:19:16.480 is URL.com slash global bar. 01:19:16.480 --> 01:19:17.480 They're great. 01:19:17.480 --> 01:19:18.480 And you should check them out. 01:19:18.480 --> 01:19:19.480 And progress. 01:19:19.480 --> 01:19:20.480 So that's, 01:19:20.480 --> 01:19:22.480 this company.com slash LNL, 01:19:22.480 --> 01:19:23.480 or whatever. 01:19:23.480 --> 01:19:24.480 So yeah. 01:19:24.480 --> 01:19:25.480 That's, 01:19:25.480 --> 01:19:26.480 that's how I do, 01:19:26.480 --> 01:19:26.480 yeah, 01:19:26.480 --> 01:19:28.480 I do direct sales. 01:19:28.480 --> 01:19:29.480 I have, 01:19:29.480 --> 01:19:31.480 I have things in the works with agencies, 01:19:31.480 --> 01:19:35.480 but I found that to be an immensely frustrating experience, 01:19:35.480 --> 01:19:36.480 here the two. 01:19:36.480 --> 01:19:37.480 But we'll see, 01:19:37.480 --> 01:19:39.480 that's kind of why I want to talk to you about this properly, 01:19:39.480 --> 01:19:41.480 like privately and when I'm sorry. 01:19:41.480 --> 01:19:42.480 Yeah, 01:19:42.480 --> 01:19:42.480 I mean, 01:19:42.480 --> 01:19:43.480 I don't know how much I'll be, 01:19:43.480 --> 01:19:45.480 but I'm happy to see what I know. 01:19:45.480 --> 01:19:47.480 But I was just going to ask then, 01:19:47.480 --> 01:19:48.480 for, 01:19:48.480 --> 01:19:50.480 and I'm guessing the way that this is worked out, 01:19:50.480 --> 01:19:51.480 and the way that it's, 01:19:51.480 --> 01:19:52.480 you know, 01:19:52.480 --> 01:19:54.480 the sort of pain that comes out of this is worked out. 01:19:54.480 --> 01:19:57.480 It's based on the number of people who head to the, 01:19:57.480 --> 01:19:59.480 the link you specified, 01:19:59.480 --> 01:20:00.480 and, 01:20:00.480 --> 01:20:01.480 you know, 01:20:01.480 --> 01:20:03.480 that's how the payouts happen. 01:20:03.480 --> 01:20:04.480 Well, 01:20:04.480 --> 01:20:09.480 I don't want to go too far into my corporate secrets, 01:20:09.480 --> 01:20:10.480 as it were, 01:20:10.480 --> 01:20:12.480 but now it's based on the, 01:20:12.480 --> 01:20:15.480 the number of people who regularly download, 01:20:15.480 --> 01:20:17.480 and what you get there is a CPM, 01:20:17.480 --> 01:20:18.480 cost per million, 01:20:18.480 --> 01:20:19.480 cost per thousand. 01:20:19.480 --> 01:20:20.480 And so, 01:20:20.480 --> 01:20:21.480 seeing have, 01:20:21.480 --> 01:20:23.480 I don't know, 01:20:23.480 --> 01:20:24.480 what's the simple thing, 01:20:24.480 --> 01:20:25.480 10,000 people listening, 01:20:25.480 --> 01:20:27.480 so that your mod's player is 10, 01:20:27.480 --> 01:20:28.480 so I say you, 01:20:28.480 --> 01:20:29.480 you're going to charge them, 01:20:29.480 --> 01:20:32.480 a million dollars per thousand people who listen. 01:20:32.480 --> 01:20:35.480 It is orders of magnitude less than that, obviously. 01:20:35.480 --> 01:20:39.480 But let's say it's $5 per thousand people who listen, 01:20:39.480 --> 01:20:41.480 and you have 10,000 people listening, 01:20:41.480 --> 01:20:42.480 on average, 01:20:42.480 --> 01:20:44.480 so therefore you charge them five times ten, 01:20:44.480 --> 01:20:46.480 is $50 per average. 01:20:46.480 --> 01:20:50.480 Obviously those figures are not the real ones, 01:20:50.480 --> 01:20:51.480 but, 01:20:51.480 --> 01:20:54.480 so that's the sort of traditional baked-in way, 01:20:54.480 --> 01:20:57.480 my understanding of, 01:20:57.480 --> 01:21:00.480 dynamically inserted ads is that, 01:21:00.480 --> 01:21:03.480 it's more a case of you agree a CPM, 01:21:03.480 --> 01:21:06.480 and so say it's $5 per thousand people, 01:21:06.480 --> 01:21:07.480 and they say right, 01:21:07.480 --> 01:21:09.480 well our budget is, 01:21:13.480 --> 01:21:15.480 about $5,000, 01:21:15.480 --> 01:21:20.480 so therefore we will pay for thousand impressions, 01:21:20.480 --> 01:21:22.480 so it's more like the old school, 01:21:22.480 --> 01:21:24.480 you know, 01:21:24.480 --> 01:21:26.480 banner ads and text ads, 01:21:26.480 --> 01:21:27.480 so it's, 01:21:27.480 --> 01:21:29.480 they will dynamically insert into the first, 01:21:29.480 --> 01:21:32.480 thousand downloads there ad, 01:21:32.480 --> 01:21:35.480 and that can either be programmatic as they call it, 01:21:35.480 --> 01:21:40.480 which is read by just some voice actor person 01:21:40.480 --> 01:21:42.480 in a studio somewhere, 01:21:42.480 --> 01:21:44.480 or it can be hostred, 01:21:44.480 --> 01:21:47.480 and you get more money for the hostred ones. 01:21:47.480 --> 01:21:50.480 And so you just say in their platform, 01:21:50.480 --> 01:21:51.480 you know, 01:21:51.480 --> 01:21:52.480 you upload your M3, 01:21:52.480 --> 01:21:53.480 and you say right, 01:21:53.480 --> 01:21:54.480 10 minutes and 45 seconds, 01:21:54.480 --> 01:21:55.480 here's the ad break, 01:21:55.480 --> 01:21:57.480 and so day then, 01:21:57.480 --> 01:22:02.480 dynamically insert a thousand of those that people have paid, 01:22:02.480 --> 01:22:03.480 you know, 01:22:03.480 --> 01:22:06.480 the first thousand people that download that episode, 01:22:06.480 --> 01:22:09.480 they dynamically insert the advert 01:22:09.480 --> 01:22:11.480 for this mattress company, 01:22:11.480 --> 01:22:12.480 whatever, 01:22:12.480 --> 01:22:13.480 and then once a thousand done, 01:22:13.480 --> 01:22:14.480 that's it, 01:22:14.480 --> 01:22:15.480 and you get paid. 01:22:15.480 --> 01:22:18.480 So it's sort of quite a different way of doing it, 01:22:18.480 --> 01:22:20.480 to how I have traditionally done it, 01:22:20.480 --> 01:22:21.480 which is, 01:22:21.480 --> 01:22:23.480 we have X number of people downloading, 01:22:23.480 --> 01:22:24.480 you know, 01:22:24.480 --> 01:22:25.480 X number of thousands of people, 01:22:25.480 --> 01:22:27.480 and so that multiplier, 01:22:27.480 --> 01:22:29.480 we will multiply by the CPM number, 01:22:29.480 --> 01:22:30.480 which we will agree, 01:22:30.480 --> 01:22:34.480 which obviously depends on the company dealing with, 01:22:34.480 --> 01:22:35.480 and you know, 01:22:35.480 --> 01:22:36.480 negotiation skills, et cetera, 01:22:36.480 --> 01:22:37.480 and you know, 01:22:37.480 --> 01:22:39.480 I've heard of CPM's as low as $5, 01:22:39.480 --> 01:22:41.480 or as much as $150, 01:22:41.480 --> 01:22:44.480 and somewhere in between, 01:22:44.480 --> 01:22:45.480 like, 01:22:45.480 --> 01:22:47.480 as most of the deals that I have done, 01:22:47.480 --> 01:22:48.480 let's just say. 01:22:48.480 --> 01:22:50.480 Okay, now that's interesting, 01:22:50.480 --> 01:22:52.480 I ask mostly because, 01:22:52.480 --> 01:22:54.480 the project I work on, 01:22:54.480 --> 01:22:57.480 we have rudimentary podcasting tools, 01:22:57.480 --> 01:22:58.480 and, you know, 01:22:58.480 --> 01:23:00.480 as I mentioned cast apart there, 01:23:00.480 --> 01:23:01.480 a direct, 01:23:01.480 --> 01:23:02.480 I wouldn't say there are competitors 01:23:02.480 --> 01:23:03.480 to us, 01:23:03.480 --> 01:23:04.480 we're not competing really, 01:23:04.480 --> 01:23:07.480 but they have done a lot of work around, 01:23:07.480 --> 01:23:09.480 monetization, 01:23:09.480 --> 01:23:11.480 and we have rather more, 01:23:11.480 --> 01:23:15.480 hesitant to get into the monetization side of things, 01:23:15.480 --> 01:23:17.480 specifically around advertising. 01:23:17.480 --> 01:23:19.480 We really don't want to have, 01:23:19.480 --> 01:23:20.480 like you say, 01:23:20.480 --> 01:23:21.480 dynamic advertising, 01:23:21.480 --> 01:23:23.480 be something that we offer, 01:23:23.480 --> 01:23:26.480 something like host red advertising. 01:23:26.480 --> 01:23:27.480 I'm trying to just, 01:23:27.480 --> 01:23:30.480 I didn't really understand how it worked before this, 01:23:30.480 --> 01:23:33.480 but it would explain why people find things 01:23:33.480 --> 01:23:35.480 such as the viewership numbers, 01:23:35.480 --> 01:23:37.480 or the listenership numbers so important, 01:23:37.480 --> 01:23:40.480 and it's just something for me to bear in mind, 01:23:40.480 --> 01:23:44.480 when we come to revisit podcasting as a feature set, 01:23:44.480 --> 01:23:46.480 that having better analytics 01:23:46.480 --> 01:23:49.480 is a super important way of getting people, 01:23:49.480 --> 01:23:51.480 you know, 01:23:51.480 --> 01:23:54.480 giving people more avenues for payment than just, 01:23:54.480 --> 01:23:55.480 you know, 01:23:55.480 --> 01:23:56.480 what the, 01:23:56.480 --> 01:23:57.480 the we prefer, 01:23:57.480 --> 01:23:58.480 which is, 01:23:58.480 --> 01:23:59.480 you know, 01:23:59.480 --> 01:24:03.480 direct endorsement or direct donation, 01:24:03.480 --> 01:24:04.480 because, 01:24:04.480 --> 01:24:06.480 so let me just, 01:24:06.480 --> 01:24:07.480 let me just say this, 01:24:07.480 --> 01:24:08.480 let me just say this right, 01:24:08.480 --> 01:24:10.480 that unless you have, 01:24:10.480 --> 01:24:12.480 like a million, 01:24:12.480 --> 01:24:14.480 plus downloads a year, 01:24:14.480 --> 01:24:16.480 well, 01:24:16.480 --> 01:24:17.480 I don't know, 01:24:17.480 --> 01:24:18.480 let's just say, 01:24:18.480 --> 01:24:20.480 hundreds of thousands, 01:24:20.480 --> 01:24:22.480 hundreds of downloads per year, 01:24:22.480 --> 01:24:24.480 advertisers not interested these days, 01:24:24.480 --> 01:24:25.480 generally speaking, 01:24:25.480 --> 01:24:28.480 is my understanding of the market right now. 01:24:28.480 --> 01:24:29.480 Yeah, 01:24:29.480 --> 01:24:31.480 and let me also say this right, 01:24:31.480 --> 01:24:35.480 that even in a situation where you've got, 01:24:35.480 --> 01:24:40.480 an audience that fully understands that, 01:24:40.480 --> 01:24:43.480 you know, 01:24:43.480 --> 01:24:44.480 the donation model, 01:24:44.480 --> 01:24:47.480 or pay what you can as elementary do, 01:24:47.480 --> 01:24:48.480 you know, 01:24:48.480 --> 01:24:49.480 the phrase that is, 01:24:49.480 --> 01:24:51.480 pay what you can rather than pay, 01:24:51.480 --> 01:24:52.480 what you want, 01:24:52.480 --> 01:24:53.480 but anyway, 01:24:53.480 --> 01:24:55.480 basically the donation model, 01:24:55.480 --> 01:24:57.480 you are never going to crack more than a few, 01:24:57.480 --> 01:24:59.480 percent of people who are willing to pay for it, 01:24:59.480 --> 01:25:00.480 on the answer that, 01:25:00.480 --> 01:25:01.480 but is, 01:25:01.480 --> 01:25:02.480 is my understanding, 01:25:02.480 --> 01:25:03.480 and look, 01:25:03.480 --> 01:25:04.480 if you, 01:25:04.480 --> 01:25:05.480 it, 01:25:05.480 --> 01:25:07.480 find me someone who is cracked more than a few, 01:25:07.480 --> 01:25:08.480 percent, 01:25:08.480 --> 01:25:10.480 and I want to go for beers with them, 01:25:10.480 --> 01:25:13.480 and pick their brains on how the fuck they did that. 01:25:13.480 --> 01:25:14.480 Yeah, 01:25:14.480 --> 01:25:15.480 and I, 01:25:15.480 --> 01:25:16.480 I totally agree, 01:25:16.480 --> 01:25:17.480 that, 01:25:17.480 --> 01:25:18.480 you know, 01:25:18.480 --> 01:25:18.480 we've, 01:25:18.480 --> 01:25:19.480 like I say, 01:25:19.480 --> 01:25:20.480 we've struggled with it, 01:25:20.480 --> 01:25:21.480 we've been looking into it, 01:25:21.480 --> 01:25:24.480 and we are of mostly donation funded projects, 01:25:24.480 --> 01:25:26.480 but there's a big difference between a project, 01:25:26.480 --> 01:25:26.480 and a, 01:25:26.480 --> 01:25:27.480 you know, 01:25:27.480 --> 01:25:28.480 an individually created, 01:25:28.480 --> 01:25:29.480 you know, 01:25:29.480 --> 01:25:30.480 podcast, 01:25:30.480 --> 01:25:31.480 I think, 01:25:31.480 --> 01:25:33.480 but that's why we, 01:25:33.480 --> 01:25:35.480 we like this idea of having, 01:25:35.480 --> 01:25:36.480 let's say that, 01:25:36.480 --> 01:25:39.480 if you give a value proposition to users, 01:25:39.480 --> 01:25:40.480 for using this, 01:25:40.480 --> 01:25:41.480 this part, 01:25:41.480 --> 01:25:42.480 for my talk about retrobeats, 01:25:42.480 --> 01:25:43.480 and you say, 01:25:43.480 --> 01:25:43.480 okay, 01:25:43.480 --> 01:25:45.480 let's say you gave five euros a month, 01:25:45.480 --> 01:25:46.480 a month, 01:25:46.480 --> 01:25:47.480 to, 01:25:47.480 --> 01:25:48.480 you know, 01:25:48.480 --> 01:25:49.480 and you just had that allocated, 01:25:49.480 --> 01:25:50.480 and it spread, 01:25:50.480 --> 01:25:53.480 between your most listened podcast, 01:25:53.480 --> 01:25:54.480 randomly, 01:25:54.480 --> 01:25:56.480 whichever ones you most listen to, 01:25:56.480 --> 01:25:58.480 or whatever ones you most interact with, 01:25:58.480 --> 01:25:59.480 or whatever it may be, 01:25:59.480 --> 01:26:00.480 or random, 01:26:00.480 --> 01:26:01.480 who knows, 01:26:01.480 --> 01:26:02.480 I, 01:26:02.480 --> 01:26:02.480 I, 01:26:02.480 --> 01:26:03.480 I wonder if that's, 01:26:03.480 --> 01:26:03.480 and, 01:26:03.480 --> 01:26:04.480 and you know, 01:26:04.480 --> 01:26:05.480 spread that across multiple users, 01:26:05.480 --> 01:26:06.480 who might be willing to do it. 01:26:06.480 --> 01:26:07.480 I wonder if that, 01:26:07.480 --> 01:26:09.480 would start to sort of yield results, 01:26:09.480 --> 01:26:10.480 because at the moment, 01:26:10.480 --> 01:26:12.480 we're seeing the problem that I mentioned about whales, 01:26:12.480 --> 01:26:14.480 where you have a lot, 01:26:14.480 --> 01:26:16.480 and most people will not pay anything, 01:26:16.480 --> 01:26:19.480 and a few will pay thousands, 01:26:19.480 --> 01:26:20.480 you know, 01:26:20.480 --> 01:26:21.480 and, 01:26:21.480 --> 01:26:22.480 well, 01:26:22.480 --> 01:26:23.480 let me stop doing it, 01:26:23.480 --> 01:26:25.480 because what you're talking about exists, 01:26:25.480 --> 01:26:26.480 right, 01:26:26.480 --> 01:26:27.480 what you're talking about exists, 01:26:27.480 --> 01:26:29.480 and it is called podcasting 2.0, 01:26:29.480 --> 01:26:31.480 and there are a whole bunch of new podcasting, 01:26:31.480 --> 01:26:33.480 new podcasting now, 01:26:33.480 --> 01:26:34.480 and, 01:26:34.480 --> 01:26:35.480 yeah, 01:26:35.480 --> 01:26:37.480 those people do that, 01:26:37.480 --> 01:26:39.480 and certain other things. 01:26:39.480 --> 01:26:41.480 It works, 01:26:41.480 --> 01:26:42.480 so you're correct. 01:26:42.480 --> 01:26:43.480 I'm glad you found a piece of it that works for you, 01:26:43.480 --> 01:26:44.480 too, 01:26:44.480 --> 01:26:45.480 that's best, 01:26:45.480 --> 01:26:46.480 effing awesome, 01:26:46.480 --> 01:26:47.480 self-sensoring, 01:26:47.480 --> 01:26:48.480 you're sorry. 01:26:48.480 --> 01:26:49.480 Are we allowed to say fuck here? 01:26:49.480 --> 01:26:50.480 Well, 01:26:50.480 --> 01:26:50.480 we are, 01:26:50.480 --> 01:26:52.480 but then Apple says you can't put, 01:26:52.480 --> 01:26:52.480 like, 01:26:52.480 --> 01:26:53.480 a kid smiley face on it, 01:26:53.480 --> 01:26:55.480 which I never thought should have been on it in the first place. 01:26:55.480 --> 01:26:57.480 So fuck Apple did it. 01:26:57.480 --> 01:26:58.480 Just, 01:26:58.480 --> 01:27:00.480 on the other hand, 01:27:00.480 --> 01:27:01.480 you know, 01:27:01.480 --> 01:27:02.480 you might, 01:27:02.480 --> 01:27:04.480 something I say might be so, 01:27:04.480 --> 01:27:05.480 effing brilliant, 01:27:05.480 --> 01:27:06.480 you want to play it for your kids, 01:27:06.480 --> 01:27:08.480 so I watch out for that on my part. 01:27:08.480 --> 01:27:09.480 Fair enough. 01:27:09.480 --> 01:27:10.480 But anyway, 01:27:10.480 --> 01:27:11.480 the, 01:27:11.480 --> 01:27:14.480 the dream of podcasting 2.0 is genius. 01:27:14.480 --> 01:27:16.480 It's exactly what you were just talking about. 01:27:16.480 --> 01:27:17.480 It's, 01:27:17.480 --> 01:27:18.480 it's the idea that, 01:27:18.480 --> 01:27:20.480 everybody contributes a tiny bit, 01:27:20.480 --> 01:27:21.480 you know, 01:27:21.480 --> 01:27:22.480 they decide right. 01:27:22.480 --> 01:27:23.480 My budget for the month, 01:27:23.480 --> 01:27:24.480 or for the year, 01:27:24.480 --> 01:27:25.480 is $5.10, 01:27:25.480 --> 01:27:27.480 or whatever. 01:27:27.480 --> 01:27:28.480 Hold on, 01:27:28.480 --> 01:27:32.480 that's a very small part of podcasting 2.0. 01:27:32.480 --> 01:27:35.480 The financial part of it is what everyone focuses on. 01:27:35.480 --> 01:27:36.480 So it looks huge, 01:27:36.480 --> 01:27:38.480 because it's under a lot of magnifying glasses. 01:27:38.480 --> 01:27:40.480 It's just a wedge of the pie, though. 01:27:40.480 --> 01:27:42.480 That's literally what we've been 01:27:42.480 --> 01:27:43.480 in about for the last time. 01:27:43.480 --> 01:27:44.480 It's, 01:27:44.480 --> 01:27:46.480 it's monetizing things generally. 01:27:46.480 --> 01:27:46.480 So, 01:27:46.480 --> 01:27:47.480 yes, 01:27:47.480 --> 01:27:47.480 of course. 01:27:47.480 --> 01:27:48.480 Yes, 01:27:48.480 --> 01:27:49.480 but you said podcasting 2.0. 01:27:49.480 --> 01:27:53.480 So I would hate for anyone who hasn't heard of podcasting 2.0 01:27:53.480 --> 01:27:55.480 to think that, 01:27:55.480 --> 01:27:57.480 everything we've talked about for the last hour, 01:27:57.480 --> 01:27:58.480 encapsulate podcasting 2.0. 01:27:58.480 --> 01:27:59.480 Podcasting 2.0. 01:27:59.480 --> 01:28:00.480 All right. 01:28:00.480 --> 01:28:00.480 Well, 01:28:00.480 --> 01:28:01.480 let me cut to the chase then. 01:28:01.480 --> 01:28:02.480 All right. 01:28:02.480 --> 01:28:03.480 Let me cut to the chase then. 01:28:03.480 --> 01:28:04.480 And the, 01:28:04.480 --> 01:28:06.480 the kind of the chase is two podcasting 01:28:06.480 --> 01:28:11.480 that podcasting 2.0 is tainted by crypto bullshit. 01:28:11.480 --> 01:28:13.480 And so, 01:28:13.480 --> 01:28:14.480 therefore, 01:28:14.480 --> 01:28:16.480 I want nothing to do with it, 01:28:16.480 --> 01:28:18.480 because crypto is positive, 01:28:18.480 --> 01:28:20.480 bullshit. 01:28:20.480 --> 01:28:21.480 Correct. 01:28:21.480 --> 01:28:22.480 I mean, 01:28:22.480 --> 01:28:23.480 if you want to agree, 01:28:23.480 --> 01:28:25.480 if you want to disagree with me, 01:28:25.480 --> 01:28:26.480 I mean, 01:28:26.480 --> 01:28:27.480 we can. 01:28:27.480 --> 01:28:27.480 Yes, 01:28:27.480 --> 01:28:28.480 disagree on this. 01:28:28.480 --> 01:28:30.480 Can I have 10 seconds to disagree? 01:28:30.480 --> 01:28:31.480 I mean, 01:28:31.480 --> 01:28:32.480 you can, 01:28:32.480 --> 01:28:33.480 but I'll probably take my headphones off. 01:28:33.480 --> 01:28:34.480 No, 01:28:34.480 --> 01:28:35.480 no, 01:28:35.480 --> 01:28:36.480 I have, 01:28:36.480 --> 01:28:39.480 I would like to rebut a piece of what you just said, 01:28:39.480 --> 01:28:41.480 not the entire thing in a reasonable way. 01:28:41.480 --> 01:28:43.480 And if you think I'm being unreasonable, 01:28:43.480 --> 01:28:45.480 I would appreciate that feedback as well. 01:28:45.480 --> 01:28:46.480 Right. 01:28:46.480 --> 01:28:46.480 Well, 01:28:46.480 --> 01:28:47.480 let me just say this. 01:28:47.480 --> 01:28:50.480 Crypto bullshit or not bullshit. 01:28:50.480 --> 01:28:51.480 Are you saying that? 01:28:51.480 --> 01:28:52.480 Are you asking that? 01:28:52.480 --> 01:28:53.480 That's the question. 01:28:53.480 --> 01:28:56.480 It's like a Y slash and crypto is bullshit. 01:28:56.480 --> 01:28:57.480 Y slash and underscore. 01:28:57.480 --> 01:28:59.480 That wasn't my question. 01:28:59.480 --> 01:29:01.480 Do I have to answer your question before you let it remind? 01:29:01.480 --> 01:29:02.480 No. 01:29:02.480 --> 01:29:03.480 Feel free to answer it. 01:29:03.480 --> 01:29:05.480 To ask me any question you'd like so. 01:29:05.480 --> 01:29:06.480 Okay. 01:29:06.480 --> 01:29:07.480 And I will answer yours next. 01:29:07.480 --> 01:29:09.480 If you still are interested in what I care, 01:29:09.480 --> 01:29:13.480 you can cut that part out of podcasting 2.0. 01:29:13.480 --> 01:29:15.480 You don't have to use that at all. 01:29:15.480 --> 01:29:16.480 Right. 01:29:16.480 --> 01:29:18.480 That wasn't that was a statement. 01:29:18.480 --> 01:29:21.480 Are you aware that you can cut that out of podcasting 2.0. 01:29:21.480 --> 01:29:25.480 It is still a marvelous landscape without that included. 01:29:25.480 --> 01:29:26.480 That was my question. 01:29:26.480 --> 01:29:27.480 Right. 01:29:27.480 --> 01:29:28.480 So, 01:29:28.480 --> 01:29:29.480 right. 01:29:29.480 --> 01:29:30.480 So my answer to that question is, 01:29:30.480 --> 01:29:35.480 of course, I'm aware that the monetization aspect of podcasting 2.0 is. 01:29:35.480 --> 01:29:36.480 So it's very good. 01:29:36.480 --> 01:29:38.480 It's much one of the aspects of it. 01:29:38.480 --> 01:29:41.480 And chat is new tags. 01:29:41.480 --> 01:29:43.480 And it loads of other cool stuff. 01:29:43.480 --> 01:29:44.480 Right. 01:29:44.480 --> 01:29:46.480 I totally, I'm going to totally aware of that. 01:29:46.480 --> 01:29:47.480 So you think you're asking? 01:29:47.480 --> 01:29:47.480 No. 01:29:47.480 --> 01:29:48.480 Let me. 01:29:48.480 --> 01:29:49.480 Go ahead. 01:29:49.480 --> 01:29:50.480 I'll get from you. 01:29:50.480 --> 01:29:50.480 No. 01:29:50.480 --> 01:29:51.480 You can't. 01:29:51.480 --> 01:29:51.480 You know, 01:29:51.480 --> 01:29:52.480 you don't put words in my mouth, right? 01:29:52.480 --> 01:29:53.480 It's not cool. 01:29:53.480 --> 01:29:54.480 Just because. 01:29:54.480 --> 01:29:55.480 The rest of it was cool. 01:29:55.480 --> 01:29:56.480 No. 01:29:56.480 --> 01:29:58.480 I said that there are aspects of it, 01:29:58.480 --> 01:29:59.480 which are. 01:29:59.480 --> 01:30:00.480 Okay. 01:30:00.480 --> 01:30:01.480 Not the rest of it. 01:30:01.480 --> 01:30:01.480 Okay. 01:30:01.480 --> 01:30:02.480 I'm sorry. 01:30:02.480 --> 01:30:03.480 Correct. 01:30:03.480 --> 01:30:03.480 Right. 01:30:03.480 --> 01:30:04.480 I should not. 01:30:04.480 --> 01:30:05.480 However. 01:30:05.480 --> 01:30:06.480 Thank you. 01:30:06.480 --> 01:30:07.480 Right. 01:30:07.480 --> 01:30:08.480 Just imagine this, right? 01:30:08.480 --> 01:30:11.480 Just imagine the most delicious food that you can imagine. 01:30:11.480 --> 01:30:13.480 Maybe that's a chocolate cake. 01:30:13.480 --> 01:30:16.480 Maybe that's a delicious English breakfast fry up. 01:30:16.480 --> 01:30:17.480 Maybe it's the most delicious. 01:30:17.480 --> 01:30:19.480 I haven't heard this before. 01:30:19.480 --> 01:30:20.480 Right. 01:30:20.480 --> 01:30:22.480 But just imagine you've cooked. 01:30:22.480 --> 01:30:23.480 Just whoever's listening right now. 01:30:23.480 --> 01:30:26.480 Just imagine you've cooked the perfect meal. 01:30:26.480 --> 01:30:28.480 Or someone else has cooked it for you. 01:30:28.480 --> 01:30:30.480 Friends of yours, maybe you've paid whatever. 01:30:30.480 --> 01:30:34.480 You are sitting down to the most delicious meal in the world. 01:30:34.480 --> 01:30:35.480 Right? 01:30:35.480 --> 01:30:37.480 It's better than anything else you've eaten. 01:30:37.480 --> 01:30:38.480 Right? 01:30:38.480 --> 01:30:40.480 However, on the same table, 01:30:40.480 --> 01:30:43.480 there is a big plate of steaming shit. 01:30:43.480 --> 01:30:45.480 And that is crypto. 01:30:45.480 --> 01:30:48.480 And that has tainted the entire meal. 01:30:48.480 --> 01:30:51.480 And crypto has tainted the entire podcast in 2.0. 01:30:51.480 --> 01:30:54.480 And so that's it. 01:30:54.480 --> 01:30:55.480 You can't just. 01:30:55.480 --> 01:30:58.480 Even if you even if you take that plate of steaming shit. 01:30:58.480 --> 01:30:59.480 Oh, the room. 01:30:59.480 --> 01:31:02.480 It's still stinks. 01:31:02.480 --> 01:31:05.480 And you're not hungry anymore for the show. 01:31:05.480 --> 01:31:06.480 One delicious food. 01:31:06.480 --> 01:31:08.480 Joe may I out of love. 01:31:08.480 --> 01:31:09.480 I'm saying this to you. 01:31:09.480 --> 01:31:12.480 If the table's big enough and full enough, 01:31:12.480 --> 01:31:16.480 it doesn't matter what somebody far enough away is doing. 01:31:16.480 --> 01:31:18.480 It's, you know what I mean? 01:31:18.480 --> 01:31:19.480 It hurts to shut people out. 01:31:19.480 --> 01:31:24.480 I have no pain in shutting crypto grows out because that shit is 01:31:24.480 --> 01:31:27.480 fucking bullshit, scam, 01:31:27.480 --> 01:31:31.480 pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme shit that has no room 01:31:31.480 --> 01:31:34.480 in anything that I'm willing to touch. 01:31:34.480 --> 01:31:36.480 It's fucking bullshit. 01:31:36.480 --> 01:31:37.480 And we get fucked. 01:31:37.480 --> 01:31:38.480 Yes, I agree. 01:31:38.480 --> 01:31:39.480 I said it. 01:31:39.480 --> 01:31:41.480 Would you like to hear my answer since you asked me? 01:31:41.480 --> 01:31:42.480 I agreed. 01:31:42.480 --> 01:31:43.480 I would answer. 01:31:43.480 --> 01:31:44.480 All right. 01:31:44.480 --> 01:31:45.480 Let's hear it. 01:31:45.480 --> 01:31:48.480 If you still care, if you actually care, 01:31:48.480 --> 01:31:50.480 if you're just, if you're just challenging me, 01:31:50.480 --> 01:31:53.480 don't, then, but if you care what I think about crypto, 01:31:53.480 --> 01:31:54.480 then I will answer. 01:31:54.480 --> 01:31:55.480 Yeah, I'd love to hear it. 01:31:55.480 --> 01:31:56.480 What are you? 01:31:56.480 --> 01:31:57.480 What are you hard Len? 01:31:57.480 --> 01:31:58.480 My friend. 01:31:58.480 --> 01:31:59.480 What are you hard Len? 01:31:59.480 --> 01:32:00.480 What am I? 01:32:00.480 --> 01:32:01.480 Huddling hurtling? 01:32:01.480 --> 01:32:02.480 I missed that word. 01:32:02.480 --> 01:32:03.480 Huddling. 01:32:03.480 --> 01:32:06.480 It's, it's, it's crypto's fake for holding. 01:32:06.480 --> 01:32:07.480 What, what are you? 01:32:07.480 --> 01:32:08.480 How much crypto do you have? 01:32:08.480 --> 01:32:09.480 Oh, zero. 01:32:09.480 --> 01:32:11.480 I don't care about crypto on the least. 01:32:11.480 --> 01:32:12.480 That's funny. 01:32:12.480 --> 01:32:14.480 So, therefore, less than I have. 01:32:14.480 --> 01:32:16.480 Because I've got 0.0 or something 01:32:16.480 --> 01:32:19.480 of a Bitcoin and like $700 coin. 01:32:19.480 --> 01:32:20.480 No, I give you a little negative. 01:32:20.480 --> 01:32:22.480 It's, and I try to avoid it. 01:32:22.480 --> 01:32:24.480 Okay, there is a little bit of negative crypto I lied. 01:32:24.480 --> 01:32:25.480 That's not true. 01:32:25.480 --> 01:32:29.480 My IRC bros were telling me buy crypto. 01:32:29.480 --> 01:32:30.480 This buy Bitcoin. 01:32:30.480 --> 01:32:31.480 This thing is so cool. 01:32:31.480 --> 01:32:34.480 It's 11 cents and it's going to be worth something someday. 01:32:34.480 --> 01:32:38.480 Even if it's worth a buck, you're a freaking hundred thousand there. 01:32:38.480 --> 01:32:41.480 But they're buy it, buy it, buy it, buy it, buy it. 01:32:41.480 --> 01:32:42.480 And I didn't buy any. 01:32:42.480 --> 01:32:45.480 And that's my one regret regarding crypto currencies. 01:32:45.480 --> 01:32:46.480 The rest I don't give a shit. 01:32:46.480 --> 01:32:47.480 That's my honest answer. 01:32:47.480 --> 01:32:49.480 And, and I respectfully, and giving you the answer 01:32:49.480 --> 01:32:52.480 because I said I would if you answered my question and you did. 01:32:52.480 --> 01:32:53.480 And thank you, Joe. 01:32:53.480 --> 01:32:54.480 I appreciate it. 01:32:54.480 --> 01:32:55.480 I still have another question for the chat, 01:32:55.480 --> 01:32:57.480 but it's an entire subject change. 01:32:57.480 --> 01:33:01.480 Well, that's one of the reasons I stopped listening to the Jupiter shows 01:33:01.480 --> 01:33:04.480 because they seem to be so tied into the crypto aspects 01:33:04.480 --> 01:33:06.480 that it just really turns me off. 01:33:06.480 --> 01:33:09.480 It's like their show doesn't exist without crypto. 01:33:09.480 --> 01:33:12.480 And I used a lot of listening to those guys. 01:33:12.480 --> 01:33:16.480 Yeah, I think I'm personally in agreement with Joe here. 01:33:16.480 --> 01:33:21.480 Like we as a project have fought so hard against crypto. 01:33:21.480 --> 01:33:24.480 And we have put out public statements basically saying 01:33:24.480 --> 01:33:26.480 any suggestion of crypto. 01:33:26.480 --> 01:33:28.480 You have to fork the project to do that. 01:33:28.480 --> 01:33:30.480 We're not, we're not integrated with that. 01:33:30.480 --> 01:33:33.480 But I need to go and do some reading up on podcasting 2.0 01:33:33.480 --> 01:33:36.480 because I really don't understand the sort of spec of it. 01:33:36.480 --> 01:33:39.480 And I wonder how many of the features you could lift 01:33:39.480 --> 01:33:41.480 from podcast 2.0. 01:33:41.480 --> 01:33:43.480 Because you can't lift all of them because it looks like 01:33:43.480 --> 01:33:47.480 some of this is about sort of creating a registry. 01:33:47.480 --> 01:33:50.480 But you could certainly lift some of the technical aspects, 01:33:50.480 --> 01:33:54.480 such as the, you know, the chat to marking and stuff like that. 01:33:54.480 --> 01:33:56.480 You don't need to lift it. 01:33:56.480 --> 01:33:57.480 You don't need to lift it. 01:33:57.480 --> 01:34:01.480 That shit exists already outside of the podcasting 2.0. 01:34:01.480 --> 01:34:05.480 The whole thing is just intimately tied in with crypto bullshit. 01:34:05.480 --> 01:34:07.480 That can just get fucked. 01:34:07.480 --> 01:34:08.480 Yeah, hold on. 01:34:08.480 --> 01:34:10.480 Joe, that's super interesting before he's read it. 01:34:10.480 --> 01:34:13.480 When you're done reading this, you're going to check up on it. 01:34:13.480 --> 01:34:16.480 Will you please come on our podcast on your random and help us with it? 01:34:16.480 --> 01:34:19.480 Tage has read into it and he loved it except for the money part 01:34:19.480 --> 01:34:21.480 and he couldn't stand listening to it. 01:34:21.480 --> 01:34:22.480 Oh, Tage is here. 01:34:22.480 --> 01:34:23.480 Tage, I don't mean to speak for you. 01:34:23.480 --> 01:34:24.480 I'm sorry. 01:34:24.480 --> 01:34:25.480 Yeah. 01:34:25.480 --> 01:34:28.480 I'm looking at this, you know, from the perspective of we need to go back 01:34:28.480 --> 01:34:30.480 into looking at podcasts again. 01:34:30.480 --> 01:34:33.480 I just want, I want to go in and understand. 01:34:33.480 --> 01:34:36.480 Because we have rude, like I say, rudimentary podcasts. 01:34:36.480 --> 01:34:39.480 What we don't have things like chat to mark, isn't that kind of thing? 01:34:39.480 --> 01:34:42.480 But after markers are, you know, awesome. 01:34:42.480 --> 01:34:43.480 Album art is awesome. 01:34:43.480 --> 01:34:47.480 Chapter art is unrigin' believable. 01:34:47.480 --> 01:34:50.480 So you're not something that's different from the pages. 01:34:50.480 --> 01:34:51.480 But that's why it's interesting to me. 01:34:51.480 --> 01:34:53.480 And that's why I'd love if you come on our podcast. 01:34:53.480 --> 01:34:55.480 And now I will show up and let you see what I wish. 01:34:55.480 --> 01:34:58.480 I was just going to say, like, for me, I would agree. 01:34:58.480 --> 01:34:59.480 The biggest contention. 01:34:59.480 --> 01:35:02.480 And we read through castapods, list of features. 01:35:02.480 --> 01:35:04.480 And, you know, we've suggested castapods. 01:35:04.480 --> 01:35:08.480 People who want some of those more, you know, advanced features. 01:35:08.480 --> 01:35:10.480 But we've really put off by the crypto stuff. 01:35:10.480 --> 01:35:15.480 And that's why we don't really recommend recommended too much anymore. 01:35:15.480 --> 01:35:18.480 It's still a step in the right direction in some ways. 01:35:18.480 --> 01:35:22.480 If you're moving away from, like, Spotify's your option for publishing. 01:35:22.480 --> 01:35:24.480 And you say, actually, I'll go with castapod. 01:35:24.480 --> 01:35:26.480 In my opinion, that's a good move. 01:35:26.480 --> 01:35:28.480 But I agree. 01:35:28.480 --> 01:35:31.480 I'm in agreement with, with thing about cryptocurrency. 01:35:31.480 --> 01:35:34.480 But that value for value thing that I'm looking at. 01:35:34.480 --> 01:35:37.480 That's something that you could do, like I say, 01:35:37.480 --> 01:35:41.480 with a traditional payment system backing thing. 01:35:41.480 --> 01:35:43.480 Where you basically just have no interest in. 01:35:43.480 --> 01:35:44.480 No one's interested. 01:35:44.480 --> 01:35:45.480 No one's interested. 01:35:45.480 --> 01:35:46.480 That's the problem. 01:35:46.480 --> 01:35:47.480 No, no, go do it. 01:35:47.480 --> 01:35:48.480 In theory, you could do it. 01:35:48.480 --> 01:35:51.480 But no one wants to pay for shit. 01:35:51.480 --> 01:35:52.480 That's free on the internet. 01:35:52.480 --> 01:35:53.480 Absolutely. 01:35:53.480 --> 01:35:54.480 Exactly for all. 01:35:54.480 --> 01:35:56.480 People who get, you're wrong. 01:35:56.480 --> 01:35:57.480 Okay. 01:35:57.480 --> 01:35:58.480 No, we know this. 01:35:58.480 --> 01:35:59.480 We're not. 01:35:59.480 --> 01:36:00.480 We're not. 01:36:00.480 --> 01:36:01.480 We're not. 01:36:01.480 --> 01:36:02.480 He's not looking for a statistic majority. 01:36:02.480 --> 01:36:04.480 He's looking for enough to get by. 01:36:04.480 --> 01:36:07.480 Or maybe not even him, somebody. 01:36:07.480 --> 01:36:10.480 They're looking for a server cost because they can't afford a server. 01:36:10.480 --> 01:36:13.480 And maybe I'm the only guy that pays and it supports it. 01:36:13.480 --> 01:36:17.480 Or maybe I just throw into the bucket so that the guy who's given it to me doesn't have to give me ads. 01:36:17.480 --> 01:36:18.480 Or whatever other reason. 01:36:18.480 --> 01:36:20.480 It's not where this was going. 01:36:20.480 --> 01:36:21.480 Right, right. 01:36:21.480 --> 01:36:22.480 Yeah, right, right. 01:36:22.480 --> 01:36:24.480 No, no, no, right. 01:36:24.480 --> 01:36:25.480 Yes. 01:36:25.480 --> 01:36:30.480 If by pay for the thing, you mean literally pay for the infrastructure costs of, 01:36:30.480 --> 01:36:35.480 you know, a $5 VPS and maybe a $20 list in account. 01:36:35.480 --> 01:36:36.480 Or whatever else. 01:36:36.480 --> 01:36:38.480 At my day job, I build the internet. 01:36:38.480 --> 01:36:39.480 Yes, I do that too. 01:36:39.480 --> 01:36:41.480 On my personal time. 01:36:41.480 --> 01:36:42.480 And this is what he's talking about. 01:36:42.480 --> 01:36:44.480 Can you let him finish? 01:36:44.480 --> 01:36:46.480 Well, no, because what I'm getting at here is right. 01:36:46.480 --> 01:36:48.480 No, you can't have that. 01:36:48.480 --> 01:36:51.480 No, no, because the problem is that we don't, 01:36:51.480 --> 01:36:55.480 we have not established what paying for something means. 01:36:55.480 --> 01:36:56.480 Right. 01:36:56.480 --> 01:36:58.480 You can pay for the. 01:36:58.480 --> 01:37:01.480 The practical infrastructure. 01:37:01.480 --> 01:37:04.480 That's very nice in the time that we have with the words. 01:37:04.480 --> 01:37:07.480 A lot of to us with the amount of people we have. 01:37:07.480 --> 01:37:09.480 That's way too big of a topic. 01:37:09.480 --> 01:37:10.480 Come on. 01:37:10.480 --> 01:37:13.480 I think that I think that I get what is what's being said here. 01:37:13.480 --> 01:37:18.480 Basically, when you're when I'm what I'm talking about is essentially donations in kind. 01:37:18.480 --> 01:37:22.480 Essentially, you know, give put money into a pot and have that be distributed. 01:37:22.480 --> 01:37:24.480 But that doesn't give you a certain thing. 01:37:24.480 --> 01:37:26.480 You're not actually purchasing something. 01:37:26.480 --> 01:37:29.480 Whereas if you subscribe to a podcast on say, 01:37:29.480 --> 01:37:32.480 Substack or, you know, Patreon, 01:37:32.480 --> 01:37:34.480 you do get something. 01:37:34.480 --> 01:37:35.480 You get an advert free thing. 01:37:35.480 --> 01:37:38.480 Or maybe you get some premium episodes that you don't get elsewhere. 01:37:38.480 --> 01:37:39.480 So I do get that. 01:37:39.480 --> 01:37:43.480 And yeah, that's that's certainly something that, you know, 01:37:43.480 --> 01:37:46.480 I don't think we have a solution to our solution. 01:37:46.480 --> 01:37:50.480 There's more about for those people who are sort of, 01:37:50.480 --> 01:37:53.480 you know, there's sort of people who help pay for a. 01:37:53.480 --> 01:37:56.480 Mastered on server that they use. 01:37:56.480 --> 01:37:59.480 Those generous people who might be willing to, you know, 01:37:59.480 --> 01:38:00.480 basically, uh, 01:38:00.480 --> 01:38:03.480 distribution money between the content that they listen to, 01:38:03.480 --> 01:38:05.480 that be that music or podcasts. 01:38:05.480 --> 01:38:06.480 But I great. 01:38:06.480 --> 01:38:08.480 That wouldn't be enough to make a living off of. 01:38:08.480 --> 01:38:09.480 And that's why I was asking you, 01:38:09.480 --> 01:38:11.480 actually, Joe, about the, um, 01:38:11.480 --> 01:38:13.480 how do that, how do your ad reads work? 01:38:13.480 --> 01:38:14.480 Because, you know, 01:38:14.480 --> 01:38:18.480 we need to think about other ways that we can help with that kind of thing. 01:38:18.480 --> 01:38:19.480 How do you work with it? 01:38:19.480 --> 01:38:21.480 We're very much for, 01:38:21.480 --> 01:38:23.480 uh, 01:38:23.480 --> 01:38:25.480 because I wasn't sure how the, um, 01:38:25.480 --> 01:38:27.480 how the sort of payouts or ad reads work, 01:38:27.480 --> 01:38:29.480 how the, um, you know, 01:38:29.480 --> 01:38:31.480 how the actual sets up for that works. 01:38:31.480 --> 01:38:32.480 But I'd know, I guess. 01:38:32.480 --> 01:38:33.480 Yeah. 01:38:33.480 --> 01:38:35.480 We're, um, 01:38:35.480 --> 01:38:39.480 but we're a platform for hobbyists at the end of the day when it comes to podcast. 01:38:39.480 --> 01:38:41.480 So we're much more about music. 01:38:41.480 --> 01:38:43.480 And there's a different challenge to, uh, 01:38:43.480 --> 01:38:44.480 selling music. 01:38:44.480 --> 01:38:47.480 And there is to make money for podcasts because, again, 01:38:47.480 --> 01:38:49.480 music you get a deliverable, 01:38:49.480 --> 01:38:51.480 and where else with, uh, you know, 01:38:51.480 --> 01:38:52.480 and we have to think about that, 01:38:52.480 --> 01:38:55.480 because we don't really want to put paywalls in front of music either. 01:38:55.480 --> 01:38:56.480 But, you know, that. 01:38:56.480 --> 01:38:57.480 There's a thing. 01:38:57.480 --> 01:38:58.480 Hang on, hang on, hang on. 01:38:58.480 --> 01:38:59.480 Are you telling the point? 01:38:59.480 --> 01:39:00.480 Just so awful. 01:39:00.480 --> 01:39:01.480 No, no, no, wait. 01:39:01.480 --> 01:39:01.480 When, when, when, 01:39:01.480 --> 01:39:03.480 what interactive point real quick with music, 01:39:03.480 --> 01:39:05.480 it is so deliverable. 01:39:05.480 --> 01:39:09.480 I have anticipation on my way to the internet to go by music. 01:39:09.480 --> 01:39:11.480 It's, it's really deliverable. 01:39:11.480 --> 01:39:12.480 Hang on. 01:39:12.480 --> 01:39:13.480 Hang on. 01:39:13.480 --> 01:39:15.480 So you tell me that music is deliverable, right? 01:39:15.480 --> 01:39:18.480 So let's say AC DC ends up a new album. 01:39:18.480 --> 01:39:23.480 It's deliverable in a way that podcasting hasn't figured out yet. 01:39:23.480 --> 01:39:26.480 Podcasting is absolutely that deliverable. 01:39:26.480 --> 01:39:28.480 We just haven't figured it out. 01:39:28.480 --> 01:39:29.480 Yeah. 01:39:29.480 --> 01:39:32.480 No, I think the difference is, and it's historical. 01:39:32.480 --> 01:39:34.480 I think the difference is largely historical. 01:39:34.480 --> 01:39:38.480 Um, like you say, you have anticipation of buying the new album from AC DC, 01:39:38.480 --> 01:39:39.480 and that's great. 01:39:39.480 --> 01:39:42.480 Whereas podcasts have historically always been essentially free access 01:39:42.480 --> 01:39:46.480 through easily accessible software using a standard RSS feed. 01:39:46.480 --> 01:39:50.480 And so people being, you know, they're like, I can get podcasts for free, 01:39:50.480 --> 01:39:53.480 and then suddenly the idea that they might have to pay for them, 01:39:53.480 --> 01:39:55.480 they find that difficult. 01:39:55.480 --> 01:39:57.480 Whereas music, they've always paid for it. 01:39:57.480 --> 01:39:58.480 That's baked in. 01:39:58.480 --> 01:39:59.480 It's called growing up. 01:39:59.480 --> 01:40:02.480 Well, let, let, let me get a little bit political here, right? 01:40:02.480 --> 01:40:06.480 Podcasts are free at the point of service. 01:40:06.480 --> 01:40:09.480 That doesn't mean they're free because someone's got a pay for it. 01:40:09.480 --> 01:40:11.480 And, uh, this is something that we just... 01:40:11.480 --> 01:40:12.480 Yeah, joke, joke. 01:40:12.480 --> 01:40:14.480 It sounds a lot like it. 01:40:14.480 --> 01:40:15.480 It just doesn't it. 01:40:15.480 --> 01:40:17.480 Joe, you're preaching to the choir. 01:40:17.480 --> 01:40:21.480 We all understand that you don't need to say it as if we disagree with you. 01:40:21.480 --> 01:40:22.480 We get that. 01:40:22.480 --> 01:40:25.480 We're on the same page at this point, and it sounds aggressive. 01:40:25.480 --> 01:40:27.480 To me, maybe I'm just hearing it wrong. 01:40:27.480 --> 01:40:29.480 And if so, I apologize for interrupting. 01:40:29.480 --> 01:40:35.480 Well, it just seems to me that you've got a bunch of people who are happy to make podcasts 01:40:35.480 --> 01:40:36.480 as a hobby, right? 01:40:36.480 --> 01:40:38.480 Which is totally cold, like great. 01:40:38.480 --> 01:40:41.480 And, you know, they want to make a few bucks out of it 01:40:41.480 --> 01:40:44.480 to sort of kind of cover their expenses and maybe even cover their time. 01:40:44.480 --> 01:40:49.480 But, you know, if you're spending, you know, say two hours every couple of weeks 01:40:49.480 --> 01:40:52.480 to get together with some friends record it, 01:40:52.480 --> 01:40:55.480 and, you know, like, maybe do a little bit of an audacity 01:40:55.480 --> 01:40:58.480 and then export it, upload it somewhere, and publish it. 01:40:58.480 --> 01:41:03.480 And, you know, that's, you know, you may be making a couple of hundred bucks a month 01:41:03.480 --> 01:41:06.480 or, you know, you're bringing in a hundred couple hundred bucks a month. 01:41:06.480 --> 01:41:11.480 That's covering your hosting costs and it's paying everyone a beer money, whatever. 01:41:11.480 --> 01:41:14.480 And that's cool, right? But that's just not what I'm trying to do here. 01:41:14.480 --> 01:41:19.480 I'm trying to do this as a living, and it's just a different situation 01:41:19.480 --> 01:41:23.480 and it's, it's very hard in the Linux and open source world 01:41:23.480 --> 01:41:27.480 to make people understand that that you can't, 01:41:27.480 --> 01:41:31.480 and this applies to open source projects as well. 01:41:31.480 --> 01:41:36.480 You've got certain projects that haven't been updated for years and years and years, right? 01:41:36.480 --> 01:41:38.480 Because you're, okay? 01:41:38.480 --> 01:41:43.480 You sound really guilty, but what you're saying doesn't sound worthy of guilt. 01:41:43.480 --> 01:41:44.480 It's not what you're doing. 01:41:44.480 --> 01:41:44.480 It's not what you're doing. 01:41:44.480 --> 01:41:45.480 It's not what you're doing. 01:41:45.480 --> 01:41:46.480 It's not what you're doing. 01:41:46.480 --> 01:41:47.480 It's something you want to keep. 01:41:47.480 --> 01:41:49.480 No, yes, yes, yes. 01:41:49.480 --> 01:41:51.480 I really don't think it opens or it's. 01:41:51.480 --> 01:41:53.480 Yes, I wasn't sure I'm gonna be able to. 01:41:53.480 --> 01:41:56.480 I'm trying to say that like you sound, you, it's, 01:41:56.480 --> 01:41:57.480 it's, it's guilt. 01:41:57.480 --> 01:42:00.480 Yes, I, I, I don't think it's, defensive. 01:42:00.480 --> 01:42:02.480 Maybe defensive is the weapon. 01:42:02.480 --> 01:42:05.480 Yeah, okay, no defensive. 01:42:05.480 --> 01:42:06.480 I don't understand. 01:42:06.480 --> 01:42:10.480 But in, the difference there is that, I would, you're among, 01:42:10.480 --> 01:42:12.480 I mean, I know you don't get along with, 01:42:12.480 --> 01:42:15.480 is that, you know, I'll go back to the pronunciation. 01:42:15.480 --> 01:42:16.480 I know you'll get along with them. 01:42:16.480 --> 01:42:17.480 It's pronounced. 01:42:17.480 --> 01:42:19.480 Mass, and OSS. 01:42:19.480 --> 01:42:20.480 Okay. 01:42:20.480 --> 01:42:21.480 Mass, okay. 01:42:21.480 --> 01:42:23.480 I understand you don't get along with them. 01:42:23.480 --> 01:42:25.480 He still sounds like your friend. 01:42:25.480 --> 01:42:26.480 I don't have any problems with opinion. 01:42:26.480 --> 01:42:28.480 I just, that's about it. 01:42:28.480 --> 01:42:31.480 I don't have a problem with the model, Joe. 01:42:31.480 --> 01:42:33.480 I know you need to make money. 01:42:33.480 --> 01:42:34.480 I don't have a problem with that. 01:42:34.480 --> 01:42:37.480 I just don't think that because I advertise 01:42:37.480 --> 01:42:39.480 one of my podcasts as being, 01:42:39.480 --> 01:42:40.480 no ads, no BS. 01:42:40.480 --> 01:42:44.480 It doesn't mean I'm calling your product bad. 01:42:44.480 --> 01:42:47.480 It just means I'm calling my product what it is. 01:42:47.480 --> 01:42:48.480 Okay. 01:42:48.480 --> 01:42:50.480 So no, no ads is in one circle, 01:42:50.480 --> 01:42:51.480 and no BS is in another. 01:42:51.480 --> 01:42:53.480 And, and Joe, you don't fall within the, 01:42:53.480 --> 01:42:55.480 the Zen overlap. 01:42:55.480 --> 01:42:57.480 You never, he never meant to attend the truth. 01:42:57.480 --> 01:42:58.480 I did. 01:42:58.480 --> 01:43:00.480 If anybody listens to this, 01:43:00.480 --> 01:43:03.480 thinks that no ads are nor BS. 01:43:03.480 --> 01:43:07.480 It's not an attack on people who have ads in their shows. 01:43:07.480 --> 01:43:09.480 Then, good luck. 01:43:09.480 --> 01:43:12.480 Good luck with the critical thinking and the rest of it. 01:43:12.480 --> 01:43:15.480 That comes to my house. 01:43:15.480 --> 01:43:17.480 No, listen, listen to me. 01:43:17.480 --> 01:43:20.480 To come to my house, my fucking house, 01:43:20.480 --> 01:43:21.480 my telegram group, 01:43:21.480 --> 01:43:23.480 and advertise your podcast, 01:43:23.480 --> 01:43:25.480 as having no ads of no BS, 01:43:25.480 --> 01:43:27.480 gets your band from my telegram group. 01:43:27.480 --> 01:43:28.480 So, right? 01:43:28.480 --> 01:43:29.480 No, no, no. 01:43:29.480 --> 01:43:30.480 He said it in wrong place, 01:43:30.480 --> 01:43:32.480 and then we had a conversation about it. 01:43:32.480 --> 01:43:33.480 And then he doubled down on it, 01:43:33.480 --> 01:43:34.480 and he can get fucked. 01:43:34.480 --> 01:43:35.480 Okay. 01:43:35.480 --> 01:43:36.480 Okay. 01:43:36.480 --> 01:43:37.480 And all of you can get fucked, 01:43:37.480 --> 01:43:38.480 because I'm just done with this. 01:43:38.480 --> 01:43:39.480 He don't tell me to get fucked. 01:43:39.480 --> 01:43:41.480 I'm trying to understand you, 01:43:41.480 --> 01:43:42.480 and I, all right, 01:43:42.480 --> 01:43:43.480 up. 01:43:43.480 --> 01:43:44.480 Mass. 01:43:44.480 --> 01:43:45.480 Yep. 01:43:45.480 --> 01:43:47.480 That's my arrest for the night. 01:43:47.480 --> 01:43:48.480 Dude, you said it in the wrong place, 01:43:48.480 --> 01:43:49.480 and you shouldn't have doubled down. 01:43:49.480 --> 01:43:50.480 I did the same thing myself. 01:43:50.480 --> 01:43:52.480 He was, he was asking people 01:43:52.480 --> 01:43:55.480 to advertise their podcasts on his show. 01:43:55.480 --> 01:43:56.480 My podcast, 01:43:56.480 --> 01:43:59.480 I, I was not saying anything about his podcast 01:43:59.480 --> 01:44:01.480 being bad or wrong in any way. 01:44:01.480 --> 01:44:02.480 I was just saying, 01:44:02.480 --> 01:44:04.480 my podcast has no ads, 01:44:04.480 --> 01:44:05.480 no BS. 01:44:05.480 --> 01:44:07.480 It's a less than 10 minute podcast 01:44:07.480 --> 01:44:08.480 of the weeks. 01:44:08.480 --> 01:44:09.480 Learning said open source news. 01:44:09.480 --> 01:44:11.480 But I don't have time to get along. 01:44:11.480 --> 01:44:12.480 I can't get it. 01:44:12.480 --> 01:44:13.480 Sorry. 01:44:13.480 --> 01:44:15.480 Sorry. 01:44:15.480 --> 01:44:17.480 I was very angry, 01:44:17.480 --> 01:44:19.480 and also happened to be in a dead zone there. 01:44:19.480 --> 01:44:20.480 Sorry. 01:44:20.480 --> 01:44:21.480 Fucking 3G sucks. 01:44:21.480 --> 01:44:23.480 It's not even 4G here. 01:44:23.480 --> 01:44:24.480 So I, 01:44:24.480 --> 01:44:25.480 maybe breaking up. 01:44:25.480 --> 01:44:26.480 Sorry. 01:44:26.480 --> 01:44:27.480 I didn't believe that. 01:44:27.480 --> 01:44:28.480 I just, 01:44:28.480 --> 01:44:29.480 that was shitty timing. 01:44:29.480 --> 01:44:30.480 Sorry. 01:44:30.480 --> 01:44:31.480 And it was the first time. 01:44:31.480 --> 01:44:32.480 It's not going to be perfect. 01:44:32.480 --> 01:44:33.480 Thanks. 01:44:33.480 --> 01:44:34.480 Hey. 01:44:34.480 --> 01:44:35.480 Okay. 01:44:35.480 --> 01:44:36.480 May I for just a moment? 01:44:36.480 --> 01:44:37.480 A wicked drunk. 01:44:37.480 --> 01:44:38.480 I need to say, 01:44:38.480 --> 01:44:39.480 I love you guys. 01:44:39.480 --> 01:44:40.480 I love this conversation. 01:44:40.480 --> 01:44:42.480 I understand. 01:44:42.480 --> 01:44:43.480 What is it? 01:44:43.480 --> 01:44:44.480 Moved spell it. 01:44:44.480 --> 01:44:45.480 Mosh. 01:44:45.480 --> 01:44:46.480 Mosh. 01:44:46.480 --> 01:44:47.480 Yes. 01:44:47.480 --> 01:44:47.480 Okay. 01:44:47.480 --> 01:44:48.480 Mosh. 01:44:48.480 --> 01:44:49.480 You made a great point. 01:44:49.480 --> 01:44:50.480 You did it in the wrong place. 01:44:50.480 --> 01:44:52.480 He let you know it was not in the wrong place. 01:44:52.480 --> 01:44:53.480 And instead of saying sorry, 01:44:53.480 --> 01:44:54.480 you know, 01:44:54.480 --> 01:44:55.480 next time I'll try to do it better, 01:44:55.480 --> 01:44:56.480 you doubled down. 01:44:56.480 --> 01:44:57.480 I've done the same thing. 01:44:57.480 --> 01:44:58.480 I don't know. 01:44:58.480 --> 01:45:00.480 Maybe I'll get it double down. 01:45:00.480 --> 01:45:02.480 I feel like he just went on slamming me. 01:45:02.480 --> 01:45:03.480 What doesn't matter. 01:45:03.480 --> 01:45:04.480 Do you think about what can you say? 01:45:04.480 --> 01:45:05.480 Just, 01:45:05.480 --> 01:45:07.480 Even if that move on from there. 01:45:07.480 --> 01:45:08.480 Yeah. 01:45:08.480 --> 01:45:09.480 He thinks you doubled down. 01:45:09.480 --> 01:45:09.480 Whether or not you've, 01:45:09.480 --> 01:45:10.480 you've meant to, 01:45:10.480 --> 01:45:12.480 he's not questioning your intention. 01:45:12.480 --> 01:45:14.480 You doubled down in the wrong place. 01:45:14.480 --> 01:45:17.480 And he was just saying it was not the right place to do it. 01:45:17.480 --> 01:45:19.480 If we can agree that it was the wrong place, 01:45:19.480 --> 01:45:21.480 I totally agree with the point that you made. 01:45:21.480 --> 01:45:23.480 It's what we've all been talking about all night. 01:45:23.480 --> 01:45:24.480 It's. 01:45:24.480 --> 01:45:25.480 He's even saying the same damn thing. 01:45:25.480 --> 01:45:27.480 It was just the wrong way to say, 01:45:27.480 --> 01:45:32.920 way to say it in the wrong place. Thank you. Exactly, yes. Thank you for 01:45:32.920 --> 01:45:38.280 summoning it up, brilliantly. Who hit me? Yes, you. I'm sorry. I just 01:45:38.280 --> 01:45:43.400 summed up your submarine. No, that's all. The both of you summed it up between 01:45:43.400 --> 01:45:46.440 you, brilliantly. Yes, it was the wrong thing to say in the wrong 01:45:46.440 --> 01:45:51.960 place and in a different venue could have been much better handle and 01:45:51.960 --> 01:45:56.760 like this is definitely not the right venue for that for this whole thing either. 01:45:56.760 --> 01:46:06.840 I'm sorry for bringing it up as well. I'm sorry. Cool. See, now I think we're in the right 01:46:06.840 --> 01:46:11.480 frame of mind. It may be Joe and I hit it off. We're in the right frame of mind for team 01:46:11.480 --> 01:46:15.880 building and for love and for sharing love for one another. Bridge building, excuse me, 01:46:15.880 --> 01:46:24.120 that's we're in the right frame of mind. I am Joe, what about you? I'm sure. Yeah, but you are a 01:46:24.120 --> 01:46:31.480 brilliant, fucking diplomat, is all I could say. Here, Joe, are you open to working? Are you open 01:46:31.480 --> 01:46:36.280 to working for the British government because we need some? We really, really don't. Can you 01:46:36.280 --> 01:46:41.240 please talk to Europe and fix that whole situation because we need a good diplomat like you? 01:46:41.240 --> 01:46:48.920 Which whole situation? All of them, please. No, it's not. Is it the cabbage situation? I thought 01:46:48.920 --> 01:46:54.360 there was already handled. That's the one. It's a lettuce and yeah, it's a big, it's a lettuce. Oh, my 01:46:54.360 --> 01:47:00.680 favorite one was the flitching episode in Holland. So y'all want to know what I just finished up? 01:47:01.240 --> 01:47:08.600 Yep, as long as it changes the subject. AK74, a short barrel, a pistol technically, 01:47:08.600 --> 01:47:18.120 and a 556. Cool. Those are ridiculous. Oh, which 555 weapons? Like, we'll take the same ammo as, um, 01:47:18.120 --> 01:47:28.360 what, um, the M16 M4? Yes, that's a 556, it's a 223. Well, 556 is, is 556 is a federal, the NATO 01:47:28.360 --> 01:47:34.440 round, and 556 will not go into a 223, but 223 will fall into a 556 just fine. 01:47:34.440 --> 01:47:40.040 Cool. But it's still a ridiculous weapon, and it's like, I wouldn't have made the same. 01:47:40.040 --> 01:47:45.320 You've still using a rifle round, yeah, it's correct. And a rifle, well, it's short barrel, 01:47:45.320 --> 01:47:50.680 though. That's the only bandage, which makes it just twice as hard to control. It negates all the 01:47:50.680 --> 01:47:55.400 advantages. Well, if you're saying the M16 is better than the M4 because it's got a longer barrel? 01:47:55.400 --> 01:48:02.440 No, I'm saying no. No, I'm saying a rifle round without a shoulder stock is very difficult to control. 01:48:02.440 --> 01:48:09.640 Ah, okay. I mean, I can hold, uh, one inch groups at uh, 50 yards. Oh, like, 01:48:09.640 --> 01:48:14.120 oh, there's some other stuff in the top of a cylinder block wall, because that's the only place 01:48:14.120 --> 01:48:19.160 where you would want to use that weapon. Or are you staying still? Hold it, stand in a 01:48:19.160 --> 01:48:27.160 supply area. Sorry, that's right, but this one is pretty up. Sorry, I'm trying to break in here 01:48:27.160 --> 01:48:31.560 with it, just the worst mobile connection ever. So, sorry, I think I'm going to have to drop out 01:48:31.560 --> 01:48:35.560 because it's just dropping out all the time and packet loss and everything. I've just got the 01:48:35.560 --> 01:48:39.560 work. I think everyone's just on their phones because this new year's eve or whatever, even I'm in 01:48:39.560 --> 01:48:45.720 London. No, it was great. Yeah, it was great. Yeah. Okay, well, it's kind of dropping in us. 01:48:45.720 --> 01:48:51.640 So, uh, I'll keep listening for a bit, but uh, yeah, it was great to talk to everyone. And uh, 01:48:51.640 --> 01:48:58.120 yeah, it's pretty true. I guess next year. Joe, one last thing, if you, if we don't speak again, 01:48:58.120 --> 01:49:01.080 I still have my question for you that I posted in the chat. Doesn't have to be here, 01:49:01.080 --> 01:49:05.400 but I got a question for you. I'm sorry, I'm not like, it's this mobile kind of plumbel 01:49:05.400 --> 01:49:10.120 of, uh, asteroid isn't great for that sort of thing. What was the question, uh, briefly? 01:49:10.120 --> 01:49:15.480 Yeah, you just answered it, actually. Oh, was it what client I'm using? Yes, thank you. 01:49:15.480 --> 01:49:20.440 Yeah, plumbel, sorry. Yeah, it's, uh, the client is great, but just my connection is terrible tonight. 01:49:20.440 --> 01:49:26.360 Usually it's great out here, but the number of cars and everything, uh, it's, it's, it's not 01:49:26.360 --> 01:49:31.160 the client, it's my connection. I know, I've had problems all night. It's just a very busy night 01:49:31.160 --> 01:49:35.880 for London. So, uh, what do you, what do you think for, uh, we have to wear an 01:49:35.880 --> 01:49:42.200 announcement when you're, someone needs to do a new year announcement. When we all do it, 01:49:42.200 --> 01:49:49.400 three, two, one, half, half a year. I don't have to do it at the time, don't 01:49:49.400 --> 01:49:57.400 do it at all. It's still in the middle of the Atlantic. Um, next hour will be at 01:49:57.400 --> 01:50:03.320 lag time, which is New Brunswick and, and Newfoundland. And the hour after that is Eastern time, 01:50:03.320 --> 01:50:09.640 U.S. Actually, the, anyway, somewhere is, yeah, it doesn't take my beeper zill or not, 01:50:09.640 --> 01:50:14.680 today. And then I think you found them half an hour. Yeah, but that's a missed an hour from now. 01:50:14.680 --> 01:50:21.400 No, then the new family. Yeah, no family. Oh, a phyauton's in. Yeah. Oh, 01:50:21.400 --> 01:50:28.920 you have these are so cool and weird. And then New Brunswick and uh, Nova Scotia are in one hour. 01:50:28.920 --> 01:50:34.520 Well, I completely flubbed all announcing, we're all in North Carolina because uh, yeah, for some reason, 01:50:34.520 --> 01:50:39.080 I thought there was flowers. Yeah, I thought I was a later in this. Oh, I thought you just, 01:50:39.080 --> 01:50:51.560 you were too sober. I mean, I'm dead sober because like, I've just been working on a weapon. 01:50:51.560 --> 01:50:56.600 And I don't do that trunk. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Let's see. Actually, that's not just, 01:50:56.600 --> 01:51:01.160 that's best policy. That is the best rack that's that's going to be real hard to improve on that one 01:51:01.160 --> 01:51:10.040 folks. Uh, improve on. Yeah, but once again, I've mentioned Iowa, where the state sport is drinking 01:51:10.040 --> 01:51:15.240 and driving, but you know, the hobby on the side of that is taking your sugar rifle with you 01:51:15.240 --> 01:51:21.080 and hunting from out the window. Wow, both of those things suck. You know what's awesome? 01:51:21.080 --> 01:51:24.920 Up in this neck of the woods, what we do is get drunk in the front yard. And when red and 01:51:24.920 --> 01:51:31.640 next go flying by, like doing jumps on your street, you go woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. And the 12 year old 01:51:31.640 --> 01:51:37.880 raises the Miller light atcha. Yeah, but that seems logical. You know, it's fun here is uh, 01:51:37.880 --> 01:51:44.840 local cops getting drunk and uh, smashing up their uh, cars. Oh, they're El Camino. It's 01:51:44.840 --> 01:51:50.600 those cops got El Camino's. Why don't we just smash up in El Camino? Uh, they're El Camino's here. 01:51:50.600 --> 01:51:57.880 Yes, and pirate. Yes, and they're driven on and fucking forward uh, shit explorers. 01:51:58.440 --> 01:52:02.600 Anyways, so we more about the pistol you made. Uh, well, it's uh, 01:52:02.600 --> 01:52:08.280 shoulders receiver, uh, WPP pull in parts. Uh, what is it? You know, 01:52:08.280 --> 01:52:13.240 you'll know. What is our shoulders receiver? What is this receiver better than a stamp steel 01:52:13.240 --> 01:52:20.040 one that collashnikov chat out on his birthday? Oh, it's it is a stamped steel one. It's just 01:52:20.040 --> 01:52:25.000 uh, you know, it's just, it's just has a nice made in USA on it. So it's easier to deal with 01:52:25.000 --> 01:52:29.880 regulations. Did the main USA get stamped into the receiver when the receiver was stamped 01:52:29.880 --> 01:52:36.440 or is it like laser cut? Uh, well, uh, the, it is my understanding that the basic stamping was 01:52:36.440 --> 01:52:42.680 done in Poland as a flat and then it was shaped here and then this dude named, there's place called 01:52:42.680 --> 01:52:49.720 shoulders. Like, they're places in Germany, maybe in USA. Anyway, well, it's like, you know, 01:52:49.720 --> 01:52:54.920 anything else. Like, if you do the final finishing steps in the USA, the NAICALS is made in USA. 01:52:54.920 --> 01:52:59.960 Yeah, but so that about half the city buses in America are made in Canada. They just do the 01:52:59.960 --> 01:53:05.800 finishing work in Buffalo. Yeah, it's like, you bolt the, no, you bolt the holes on and Buffalo 01:53:05.800 --> 01:53:10.520 and you get to stamp made in USA on it. No, that doesn't work for someone named pirate. 01:53:10.520 --> 01:53:18.360 You said you bought it because it says, it's the laser at, made in USA on it. I asked you what 01:53:18.360 --> 01:53:25.240 the advantage of it was over the one that Colashnikov shot out on his birthday. No, it's basically 01:53:25.240 --> 01:53:30.360 a clone. And because he shot it out in his birthday, someone should go edit Wikipedia and then it 01:53:30.360 --> 01:53:36.040 will become true as long as they reference us. I thought everything in Wikipedia was true. 01:53:36.040 --> 01:53:41.960 That's what I just said. So Mo, Mo, Mo, Mo, you got to learn to agree with people better. 01:53:41.960 --> 01:53:47.560 Boss, boss, my coffee, but instead of his name, wrong, every single time. 01:53:47.560 --> 01:53:53.240 Because he spelled it phonetically and it was not an M or an O or an O or an S. 01:53:53.240 --> 01:54:00.360 It's an I will use the same thing as boss. It's just in Sanskrit. So, 01:54:00.360 --> 01:54:06.680 but it's not in all this way. Honestly, did not pronounce it myself. All right, all right, 01:54:06.680 --> 01:54:11.400 I will handle the Zaivalananda which means most bliss. I'm changing my answer. 01:54:11.400 --> 01:54:14.760 I managed to get it wrong every time because I'm an idiot. Final answer. 01:54:16.280 --> 01:54:20.760 Well, you said I don't want to know what it means. I try to be nice idiot. Do I know what what 01:54:20.760 --> 01:54:26.760 means? It's for her. No, but I'd like to. It means absolutely nothing. I made it up. Do you know what 01:54:26.760 --> 01:54:33.720 Joe means? Coffee. Coffee, yeah. Well, actually, it also means a GI of American soldiers. 01:54:33.720 --> 01:54:37.160 Well, I've been there, too. But no, it actually means... 01:54:37.160 --> 01:54:41.720 He has the vote. He also blew it. You've got walked on Joe, can you say? 01:54:41.720 --> 01:54:47.080 I'm sorry. Joe means gift from God. Oh, yeah, right on. My son's name was Jacob. 01:54:47.080 --> 01:54:53.080 Yeah. My name is my name is my first name is actually Kiron, which is an Irish name, 01:54:53.080 --> 01:54:58.120 meaning the little dock one, but I'm 181 centimeters tall and blonde, so I don't know what's 01:54:58.120 --> 01:55:02.920 happening there. Well, careful that it ain't your heart. Just don't look, you know. It's like 01:55:02.920 --> 01:55:08.920 a one-eye open. It's okay. I got it. What is your daughter, Tala here? And her name means little wolf. 01:55:08.920 --> 01:55:14.440 What is that in real inches? It's six foot one inch. Oh, not bad. 01:55:14.440 --> 01:55:21.080 Means what? Talking wolf. Okay. I got it wrong. Oh, two socks. Like from the answers or 01:55:21.080 --> 01:55:24.520 wolves. Oh, hold on. You can talk to Tala for a second. I'm going to lift some everything. 01:55:25.800 --> 01:55:33.720 Hold on. Joe does a lot of weight lifting. Oh. Hey, Tala? Hi. Yeah. Joe said that you're shorter 01:55:33.720 --> 01:55:40.200 because he named you Tala and he's sorry. He's a liar. He was too sorry for that. 01:55:43.720 --> 01:55:49.160 Shit, I just get him. Hi, Tala. It's Moss. You know me from the other podcasts. Hi, Moss. 01:55:49.160 --> 01:55:54.520 It's a pleasure to hear you. Thank you. Good to hear you, too. You're the cleverest kid I've 01:55:54.520 --> 01:55:59.000 talked to all day. Thank you. I'll be it. I'm going to talk now. So I'm big. 01:55:59.720 --> 01:56:03.800 What for your age, I meant for your I talked to a eight year old who was just brilliant all 01:56:03.800 --> 01:56:09.720 so for your age. Thank you, sir. So what kind of lies has my father been telling you? 01:56:09.720 --> 01:56:15.240 I got three sisters up out here. Oh, no, we're not going to give him. We're not going to give that up, 01:56:15.240 --> 01:56:20.680 on, Joe. He said soft. I shouldn't be free with a capital F. He said only with a lower case of 01:56:20.680 --> 01:56:31.560 he said that software. He said that software should only be free with a lower case F, but never with a 01:56:31.560 --> 01:56:38.920 capital F. Yeah, he said. He said. He made something even less. He's Windows. He said. He made you 01:56:38.920 --> 01:56:49.640 even less. He spelled Windows without a Z. That was the lie he told. But a horrible person. 01:56:50.280 --> 01:56:56.120 No, we know he's your father. You got to forgive him. No, he's on the path. He's on the path 01:56:56.120 --> 01:57:03.240 through this. We're working with him. Even if you don't forgive him now, just at least wait till 01:57:03.240 --> 01:57:07.240 we're done with him. Well, right now he's just on the weight bench, which is not quite the path 01:57:07.240 --> 01:57:14.600 to redemption. I don't know. He's pretty enough to get away with it. You don't want to be on the 01:57:14.600 --> 01:57:21.160 weight bench if moss is your spotter. He is not. We'll say physically reliable for that situation. 01:57:21.160 --> 01:57:26.680 I'm too old for that. They're slandering you. No, I'm too old for two. You don't want me to be 01:57:26.680 --> 01:57:31.960 there neither. No, I'm blessed. This guy's a sweetheart. It's only slander if it's a lie. 01:57:31.960 --> 01:57:41.640 Have I heard your voice before my dear? Uh, probably. I tend to try and interrupt his peacetime, 01:57:41.640 --> 01:57:47.880 which is mostly when he talks to you. Would you be the not tall person? Yes. I am the rather 01:57:47.880 --> 01:57:52.920 short person with the tall name. Yes, that's she's an entirely associate got short. He 01:57:52.920 --> 01:58:00.840 okay, then he owes you an apology. How about that? I will, we'll just call you shorty. I have been 01:58:01.560 --> 01:58:10.200 I have been delighted by hearing, I believe, you're, or somebody cut out a recording of your 01:58:10.200 --> 01:58:14.520 voice and gave it to me some years ago. Unfortunately, it's not on their system. 01:58:14.520 --> 01:58:20.040 Oh, you're talking about my sister. Can I? The one where it's the I am short? It's hard to keep 01:58:20.040 --> 01:58:26.120 crack of all the beauties in your family, you know. Oh, you're going to make me plush. That was the 01:58:26.120 --> 01:58:36.680 idea. Yeah, he was told to my sister. Did he give you his both I write names? I am a preemptively. 01:58:38.200 --> 01:58:45.320 I'm on the East Coast, so I think we're at a safe distance for platonic relationship. I feel like 01:58:45.320 --> 01:58:51.240 that works. I think my dad might, you know, get a little angry at any other way. He's like, 01:58:51.240 --> 01:58:56.040 as long as there are two states away. Yo, net minor, East Coast is all on the same 01:58:56.040 --> 01:59:02.360 tectonic plate, so those platonic relationships are still really, really like, yeah, well, 01:59:02.360 --> 01:59:10.360 emanating. But Joe's in Texas, that doesn't count. Yeah, sorry, Texas is like a cryptid. We're stuck here. 01:59:10.360 --> 01:59:17.080 No, so that's cool. So there's at least a lot of time in the bite of behaviorism. So the thing to do 01:59:17.080 --> 01:59:23.320 is to move up to Seattle and join the gay greater Pacific Northwest Pollachule. But it's so 01:59:23.320 --> 01:59:30.280 Seattle. No, it's so green and gloomy in Seattle all the time. If the weather was nice, 01:59:30.280 --> 01:59:35.800 I'd get it, but seriously, that's the hill you want to die on. I mean, especially the keeper 01:59:35.800 --> 01:59:41.160 of the Vancouver that keep talking about how nice it is that I'm going. It's right next to Seattle. 01:59:41.160 --> 01:59:48.280 It can't be that nice. Well, but it is sometimes I've seen pictures. Well, yeah, there are the 01:59:48.280 --> 01:59:55.160 half of the year. It's gorgeous. Vancouver at least is sane. Seattle is questionable. Well, 01:59:55.160 --> 02:00:01.720 instead, instead of bashing on places, who's got any more funny name stuff? Well, we have 02:00:01.720 --> 02:00:06.520 called my sister a fair few funny names. I'd like to share them. One of them was pooped 02:00:06.520 --> 02:00:12.520 prints on my ass. So hey, that was mine. She stole that. I guarantee them older than her. 02:00:14.520 --> 02:00:18.920 Don't try her. She'll time travel and fight you for it. I know. If you want to 02:00:18.920 --> 02:00:25.720 active time travel scalability in the offers winning position, you always, if you want to 02:00:26.440 --> 02:00:31.160 always have to let the villain think they're winning. If you want a funny name, I went to school with a 02:00:31.160 --> 02:00:39.160 guy called Adam Schittler. No, I'm not joking. At least it wasn't at all. I thought it was about 02:00:39.160 --> 02:00:46.600 I'm sure. I'm sure I'm sure his dad was sat there with the baby now. It's just going 02:00:46.600 --> 02:00:53.560 please and his mom was like, no, please. No, fine. Adam, then. No, wait a minute. What about 02:00:53.560 --> 02:01:02.040 on the altar? Like, hey, baby, I know we have a proud long Schittler history to uphold here. But 02:01:02.040 --> 02:01:09.560 can we at least hypheny? Like, pineapple hyphen Schittler? Can, but it's something. Yeah. Adam, pineapple 02:01:09.560 --> 02:01:14.440 Schittler. Okay. So the first of your name, Schittler Schalen, just like you wanted. 02:01:16.200 --> 02:01:21.080 This, I want the enterprise level. I don't want the econobox one of those. I want the enterprise. 02:01:21.080 --> 02:01:29.320 Are they? I thought the enterprise was in dry dog to me threads. No, I'm sorry. I'm talking to my dad. 02:01:30.040 --> 02:01:34.680 I couldn't hear you for that. I'm sorry you're talking to your dad too, but we understand. 02:01:37.640 --> 02:01:42.520 You have been listening to Hecker Public Radio at Hecker Public Radio does work. 02:01:42.520 --> 02:01:47.880 Today's show was contributed by a hatebird in this night like yourself. If you ever thought 02:01:47.880 --> 02:01:55.640 of a coin podcast, click on our contributely to find out how easy it means. Hosting for HDR 02:01:55.640 --> 02:02:02.760 has been kindly provided by an onsthost.com, the Internet Archive and our Sync.net. 02:02:02.760 --> 02:02:07.800 On this otherwise stages, today's show is released on our Creative Commons, 02:02:07.800 --> 02:02:20.680 Attribution for Pointo International License.